From jmeaton at ns.sympatico.ca Mon Dec 1 00:15:27 2008 From: jmeaton at ns.sympatico.ca (Janet M Eaton) Date: Mon Dec 1 00:15:55 2008 Subject: [Mai-not] Coaltion Govt: News Compilation Nov 30th [6 items]. Message-ID: <493348BF.31506.2279450B@jmeaton.ns.sympatico.ca> Coaltion Government News Compilation Nov 30th Prepared by Janet M Eaton, Dec 1, 2008 [1] NDP, Liberals reach deal to topple minority Tory government Nov 30th CBC [2] Canadian Labour Congress [CLA] statement regarding coaltion government. Nov 30th CLC [3] Countdown to a new Coalition: Restoring Confidence to the House Elizabeth May's Blog Nov 30 [4] NDP considers legal action after Tories tape private meeting Nov 30 [5] Bob Rae on CBC The Sunday Edition Michael Enright Nov 30 [6] Harper?s Last Gasp vivelecanada.ca Nov 29 ================================== [1] http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2008/11/30/canada-coalition.html NDP, Liberals reach deal to topple minority Tory government Last Updated: Sunday, November 30, 2008 | 9:51 PM ET Comments 0Recommend 430 CBC News The NDP and Liberals have reached a deal to topple the minority Conservative government and take power themselves in a coalition, CBC News has learned. A deal has been negotiated between NDP Leader Jack Layton and Liberal Leader St?phane Dion that would see them form a coalition government for two and a half years, the CBC's Keith Boag reported, citing sources. The NDP would be invited into cabinet and get 25 per cent of seats, Boag said, adding that the party wouldn't get the position of the finance chair or the deputy prime minister's post. "That's the big step forward tonight," Boag reported. The Bloc Qu?b?cois wouldn't be a part of the coalition, but would have to support it, he said. "The most difficult question is who'll be the leader," Boag said, adding that Dion, who negotiated the deal, believes he has the right to be prime minister. Opposition parties say they have lost confidence in the government of Prime Minister Stephen Harper after Thursday's economic update by Finance Minister Jim Flaherty failed to provide a stimulus package for Canadians. Since then, the Liberals have been in negotiations to form a coalition with the NDP, and the concessions made by the Conservatives this weekend have done nothing to change the party's view that Harper must go. <><><><><> [2] http://www.progressive-economics.ca/relentless/ Date sent: Sun, 30 Nov 2008 12:27:53 -0500 From: "Andrew Jackson" To: "Andrew Jackson" Subject: Coalition Government Dear Friends The NDP and Liberals are engaged in serious negotiations to form a coalition government, with the support of the Bloc. I strongly urge you to contact your MP and other Opposition MPs to urge support for this course of action, and to urge your friends to do so also. I have pasted in below the CLC statement which sets out the case for an immediate change in government. Why We Need a Coalition Government to Deal with the Economic Crisis. The Economic and Fiscal Update released by Finance Minister Flaherty on November 27, 2008 demonstrates that the Conservative government has no intention of seriously dealing with the global economic crisis and the prospect of fast rising unemployment. The recent G-20 Summit meeting called on governments to "take urgent and exceptional measures" to stimulate their economies in a co- ordinated way to stop a slide into a global depression. The incoming Obama administration in the United States plans to invest $500 to $700 billion in January 2008 to create 2.5 million jobs over the next two years, with a major focus on public infrastructure, the environment and improved unemployment benefits. The governments of Britain, Australia and China have already followed up on G-20 calls for investments of about 2% of national income, which would amount to $30 billion in the case of Canada. The European Union have just introduced a major package. Instead of actin g here, the Conservative Economic and Fiscal Update pretends that yesterday's tax cuts have already done the job and says that "the Government is planning on balanced budgets or better for the current and the next five years." Instead of investing in jobs and people, the Conservative government plans to cut spending by almost $2 billion next year. That is on top of cuts to equalization payments to the provinces of $1.8 billion next year nd $5 billion the year after. The government plans to raise more than $2 billion next year by selling off public assets (at what will be fire sale prices). It also signalled a move to shut down pay equity in the federal jurisdiction. The Economic and Fiscal statement put forward a rose-coloured economic forecast which completely ignores the reality of large recent job losses and a looming recession. It forecasts economic growth of 0.3% next year, compared to the TD Bank's forecast of a fall in Gross Domestic Product of 1.1% in 2009. It forecasts an unemployment rate of under 7% next year, while TD Bank forecasts the national unemployment rate will rise from 6.2% today, to 7.6% in 2009, to 7.9% in 2010. In short, the Conservative government has no positive plan to deal with the crisis and intends to respond to a downturn through cuts rather than needed investments in jobs and people. Rather than work to bring Canadians together, they chose to use the excuse of a crisis to try and ram through a partisan and mean- spirited agenda. The Conservatives are unwilling to make Parliament work and refuse to provide Canadians with the leadership they need to weather the deepening economic crisis. We deserve better. The Canadian Labour Congress has called for a major package including: - A multi year public investment program covering basic municipal infrastructure, energy conservation, public transit and renewable energy, twinned to Made in Canada procurement programs; - Investments in job creating public services like child care; - Improvements to Employment Insurance benefits and increased investments in training; - Measures to protect workers' pensions and improve public pensions; - Concrete action to save manufacturing and forestry jobs and to help hard hit industries restructure thorough new investments. We are greatly encouraged that the Opposition parties are prepared to work together around a positive agenda and strongly support efforts to provide Canadians with an alternative that works in the country's best interests. Andrew Jackson National Director Social and Economic Policy Tel. 613 526 7445 Check out the progressive economics blog at: http://www.progressive-economics.ca/relentless/ <><><><><><><><> [3] http://www.greenparty.ca/en/node/8623 Countdown to a new Coalition: Restoring Confidence to the House Submitted by Elizabeth May on 30 November 2008 - 10:00pm. It is often said that a week is a lifetime in Politics... It has never applied as much as this week. Wednesday night I was speaking on climate change and my new book, Global Warming for Dummies, at the New Glasgow Public Library. I was handed a note saying that the Conservatives had leaked that the next day they would announce plans to kill the public funding system to political parties. The note asked if I would do an interview with CBC TV immediately after my talk. I checked the YES box on the note and picked right up on the rising greenhouse gas concentrations in the atmosphere. The next day the utter failure of the Harper government to respond appropriately to the current global financial crisis had a shock value far larger than the immediate threat to our finances. Sure, Harper might want to kill the Green Party, but he's supposed to be an economist. The shock of that statement lost the confidence of the House. And that is what this is really about. It is about the fact that the Harper minority government has lost the confidence of the House. It cannot be fixed. The Conservatives still do not get it. They are acting as though they can go back and un-do the act of brutal political force and partisanship over responsibility that was exemplified by the Thursday coup de gras hidden in an empty economic package. Baird has pulled back the threat to public funding of political parties, saying the Conservatives will bring it back later. They have backed off the attack on public sector unions and their right to strike. Who knows what will be next? As Samuel Johnson wrote: "Impending execution concentrates the mind wonderfully." And the Harper Conservatives are now concentrating. Anything and everything may be announced in the next week. But what good can it possibly do? Losing the confidence of the House, losing the trust of the public, means that no one believes them any more. It is not a negotiation. Today former Conservative, Independent Nova Scotia MP Bill Casey issued a release saying: "At this critical time of economic crisis, Stephen Harper has failed Canadians as Prime Minister. ....Rather than providing leadership and a badly needed economic stimulus package, Mr. Harper and his Finance Minister Jim Flaherty opted instead to play partisan politics and for some reason, attack unions and women's rights...." "We are at this point because for two years, Mr. Harper has disrespected the role of opposition parties, traditions, laws, MPs and Parliament." Bill Casey put his finger on it. This is not a one time display of bullying, might makes right governance. This is the result of more than two years of disrespectful, abusive behaviour. Only this time they went too far. Bob Rae on CBC this morning said one could almost hear the crack of the Achilles heel in the House as the cruel calculation of the Flaherty economic statement sank in. They have gone too far. They cannot take it back and the Opposition Parties cannot and must not back down. Visit: www.progressivecoalition.ca and www.defendourdemocracy.ca <><><><><><><><> [4] NDP considers legal action after Tories tape private meeting Article Comments (3) BRUCE CHEADLE THE CANADIAN PRESS November 30, 2008 at 5:58 PM EST OTTAWA - The NDP says it may pursue criminal charges after the Conservatives covertly listened in, taped and distributed audio of a closed-door NDP strategy session. NDP Leader Jack Layton can be heard on the tapes boasting to his caucus that he had prepared scenarios to bring down the government with the help of the Bloc Quebecois before the Conservatives issued their recent economic statement. The caucus talks took place Saturday and a recording of the meeting was delivered to the media on Sunday by Prime Minister Stephen Harper's staff. In response, NDP MP Thomas Mulcair said the government is panicking and desperate to change the channel on its economic management and may have committed what could be an illegal act. Enlarge Image New Democratic Party leader Jack Layton speaks during Question Period in the House of Commons on Parliament Hill in Ottawa November 20, 2008. (Chris Wattie/REUTERS) Mr. Mulcair said his party is looking into "the application of the Criminal Code," in the taping. As for the substance of the call, Mr. Mulcair said the talks with the Bloc were perfectly normal consultations between parties in a minority government. They began only after the government's economic update was delivered last Thursday, he said. And Mr. Mulcair pointed as an example to consultations that took place between Mr. Layton, Mr. Harper and the Bloc's Gilles Duceppe in September 2004 when the Liberals were freshly installed as a minority government. Mr. Harper, who was leader of the Opposition at that time, held lengthy discussions with Mr. Layton and Mr. Duceppe aimed at supplanting Paul Martin's Liberal government without an election in the fall of 2004. Those talks did not invoke a coalition, but rather revolved around replacing the elected Liberal minority with a Conservative government led by Mr. Harper and supported by the New Democrats and Bloc on an issue-by-issue basis. During Saturday's conference call, Mr. Layton also is heard saying it doesn't matter what the policy issues are, they just need to defeat the Harper minority. He says he hopes a lasting coalition can be built that will survive two or three years in government. NDP spokesman Brad Lavigne said the Conservatives are merely trying to deflect attention from the government losing the confidence of the House of Commons. A spokesman for the Prime Minister's Office said there was nothing unethical about covertly listening in to the private NDP deliberations, taping those discussions and releasing them to the media. An unidentified Tory was "invited" to participate in the call, said PMO spokesman Dimitri Soudas. "Maybe the invitation was meant for the Bloc, and they accidentally invited us. We were invited. When you get invited somewhere you have the opportunity to choose to participate or not participate." <><><><><><><> http://www.cbc.ca/thesundayedition/latestshow.html [5] BOB RAE Duration: 00:27:26 Nov 30th CBC the Sunday Edition Michael enright It had all been going so well. The Harper government had been returned, still a minority, but with increased numbers of seats. There had been a Throne Speech promising all sorts of political amity and co-operation. Prime Minister Harper had made a good impression in Washington and a better one in Lima. He returned, assuring Canadians he would save the country's faltering economy. Then on Thursday, his Finance Minister stood up in the House of Commons and blew the lid off any hope of a productive, stable government. The prime minister could be forgiven for thinking the Opposition would support his government's economic update---after all it had failed to stand up to him so many times before. This time, though, it was different. This time, the three opposition parties were united in condemning the update for its lack of stimulus and particularly for killing federal subsidies for financing election campaigns. The result: serious-minded New Democrats and Liberals talking seriously about forming a coalition government to replace the Harper Tories. All day yesterday, representatives from both sides met in Ottawa to advance the coalition plan. The PM for his part is accusing the Liberals of hijacking the Oct. 14 election. Probably the only politician in the country with hands- on experience of a coalition is Liberal leadership candidate Bob Rae. In the mid- 1980s, Mr. Rae, then leader of the Ontario NDP, signed an accord with the Ontario Liberal leader David Peterson that put Mr. Peterson's government in power, in one of the most legislatively productive administration's in the province's history. Mr. Rae later became premier of Ontario, defeating Mr. Peterson. We have reached Bob Rae in Vancouver. Check here for sound file http://www.cbc.ca/thesundayedition/listen.html <><><><><><><> [6]http://www.vivelecanada.ca/article/235930445-harper-s-last-gasp ViveleCanada.ca Harper?s Last Gasp Posted on Saturday, November 29 at 16:33 by robertjb One of the reasons I have been a harsh critic of Stephen Harper is that I have always felt he has poor political judgment. But never did I think he would stoop so low as to use a time of crisis for partisan gain. To deliberately taunt the opposition parties by threatening to rescind subsidies that undermine their very existence and enforce some semblance of democratic representation is both insolent and contemptible. In the last election Harper told Canadians he was willing to water his water wine if given a majority. For Harper there is no water, no wine, just a prescription for a purgative to cleanse his rotten misanthropic soul. He is so determined to establish his conservative dynasty he is willing to sacrifice the country and anything resembling political stability for his partisan ambitions. Given the present dynamics of federal politics both of the last two elections have been stunning repudiations of the Harper conservatives yet he clings to power. With the fortunes of the Liberal Party at an all time low the CPC should have cruised to easy victories. Canadians clearly have serious reservations about this new party and understandably so. Now we are given a very brazen example of why these reservations are justified and we can be ever so thankful he did not gain a majority. If I was of a more paranoid nature I might speculate that Harper deliberately provoked the opposition parties to bring down his government down leaving him to sit in opposition, hoping the coalition would make such a mess of it that he could rebound and claim a majority on their carcasses. This though, is such a simpleminded ruse Canadians would not fall for it. At the same time, should his government fall it will be incumbent on the coalition to show a political intelligence, nimbleness and wisdom absent from Canadian politics for some time. As I have said here previously our political elites had better get used to working in minority/coalition situations as Canadians are skeptical toward awarding any party, especially a conservative party, an outright majority. Many countries are governed in this manner and it is timely our politicos upgrade their skills in collegial consensus building and measuring their policy positions against the national interest. This is especially so for the Bloc Quebecois. Quebec has been well served by Confederation and believe it or not it is in its own interest to set aside its parochial dispositions and participate in an essential Canadian nationalism. This financial crisis is going to take years to play out and how it does depends in very large part on what changes the Americans are going to make. Canada cannot be in a position where it complacently sits back and hopes the US cleans its financial house in the appropriate manner. There is going to be huge resistance to change in the US and Canada is going to have to be very nimble to ensure our own survival. Crisis takes the measure of men and leaders. Harper is not an adaptive creature but a partisan dinosaur taking his last gasp in the sludge of his ruinous ideology- an ideology of laissez-faire economics rooted in the US that has caused global chaos. Harper?s government should be relegated to the dungeons of failed sedition and hopefully a bold and inspired coalition government Canadians can be proud of will take its place. <><><><><><><> From diongiles1 at aapt.net.au Mon Dec 1 02:39:20 2008 From: diongiles1 at aapt.net.au (Dion Giles) Date: Mon Dec 1 02:41:16 2008 Subject: [Mai-not] They're Emmanuel Goldstein's people I know I know Message-ID: <20081201083921.C441CF67B@fep06.mfe.bur.connect.com.au> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.globalproblematique.net/pipermail/mai-not/attachments/20081201/813c829c/attachment.html From glparramatta at greenleft.org.au Mon Dec 1 04:10:04 2008 From: glparramatta at greenleft.org.au (glparramatta) Date: Mon Dec 1 04:24:33 2008 Subject: [Mai-not] Venezuela: The significance of the election results and the new struggles | Links Message-ID: <4933B7FC.3040105@greenleft.org.au> By *Federico Fuentes*, Caracas November 29, 2008 -- Supporters and opponents of Venezuela?s Bolivarian revolution have come out with differing assessments post the November 23 regional elections, which Venezuela's President Hugo Chavez had defined as the most important electoral contest yet for the process of change. Full article at http://links.org.au/node/768 Subscribe free to /Links - International Journal of Socialist Renewal/ - at http://www.feedblitz.com/f/?Sub=343373 From jomut at yahoo.com Mon Dec 1 13:55:06 2008 From: jomut at yahoo.com (John Mutambirwa) Date: Mon Dec 1 13:55:14 2008 Subject: [Mai-not] Re: Chomsky & Zinn (ad hominem) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <735715.83212.qm@web31104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> John Mutambirwa (Dreaming Awake) jomut@yahoo.com chakane@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/jomut ? Hi ? I have read Dion's very rewarding, impressive?and razorsharp analysis of the argument that has been going on for sometime now?(and which I am more than tempted to quit engaging in for a gamut of reasons, not the least of which is mere fatigue).? I do not have to comment on the acuity, vision, breadth and depth?of?analytical insight embodied in?his commentary?as that would be labouring a point that is?undeniably obvious to all and sundry -- at least, judging from the way I see things. ? There is, however, one more point,?a bit?removed from Dion's comments, though indirectly related to it, which has been raised in connection with the same lively exchange that I should like to touch on very briefly -- to wit, the reference to?ad hominem arguments. ? First of all, Cris' comment below, in reference to this logical fallacy,?is a bit surprising, coming from one who reacted with promptitude (and a seeming soupcon of jubilation) to a comment recently made in reference to Marx's lack of experience in gainfully rewarding work.? This, however, is a minor problem?that can be easily taken in ones stride.?A redefinition of the age old?ad hominem?logical fallacy cannot, however, be so blithely overlooked.? This happens to be a prevalent and vexatious problem that is so easy to commit and overlook, hence my attempt at ventilating the problem below ? I am aware of of many PR flacks, from both the?halls of academe and Madison Avenue, who receive liberal subventions, from well heeled Maecenas', in exchange for plugging a product or providing intellectual props for dicey ideological propositions.? Be that as it may, while the receipt of such subventions by these venal men and women of ideas can be rightly reprobated on strictly ethical grounds, the debunking of any ideas they, falsely or otherwise,?propagate as a result of being so commercial-minded, cannot?flow from the moral revulsion generated by their intellectual-for-hire practice --?this would be a blatant commission of the ad hominem fallacy -- but from the untenability of their arguments on strictly logical and/or factually demonstrable grounds. ? A phlogiston theory that is fortified by the arguments (perhaps of?maddening mathematical or logical obscurity) of an ambitiously enterprising Einstein, or an ideologicallly intoxicated and logically adept?Dons Scotus, who has been paid a million smackeroos for his mercenary intellectual?efforts, will not be fruitfully gainsaid through an intellectual onslaught on the?premises relating to the composition of the million smackeroos but on the factual and logical?untenability of the theory itself.? And this can only be done by hacking through the logical and/or mathematical thickets that?are used to hide the truth from public view. ? John ==============? --- On Sat, 11/29/08, Christoph Reuss wrote: From: Christoph Reuss Subject: Re: [Mai-not] Chomsky & Zinn "Don't Care" about 9/11 Fraud To: mai-not@globalproblematique.net Date: Saturday, November 29, 2008, 3:13 PM John Mutambirwa wrote: > I am not sure that I am aware of the questions that you keep on insisting > I have ducked. Well, here they are for the 3rd time: Are trade unionists (of the "I'm alright, Jack" kind) part of the proletariat? Do they behave like and/or serve Predators? Are "salon socialists" part of the proletariat? Is Professor Chomsky? --- I suggest you answer these first, and then I'll answer your later-posed questions. FIFO... But upfront, let me clarify this misunderstanding: > to separate your ad hominem arguments (as in, "It's no coincidence either > that Marx himself was a Predator funded and brought to prominence by large > Predators." -- which tell me diddlysquat about the thematic content of his > works) To assess whether Marxism is a Predator theory (by and for Predators), of course it DOES matter whether Marx himself was a Predator etc.! This is NOT an "ad hominem", as little as it would be an ad hominem to point out that a medical paper author is paid by the tobacco industry. An ad hominem would be that he's gay or something, because that's irrelevant for the content of his writing at hand and only his own private matter. Btw, on the issue of Marxism vs. P/P, you may find Jonathan's video interesting: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ymt72RgM9e4 Chris ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ SpamWall: Mail to this addy is deleted unread unless it contains the keyword "igve". _______________________________________________ Mai-not mailing list Mai-not@globalproblematique.net http://www.globalproblematique.net/mailman/listinfo/mai-not -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.globalproblematique.net/pipermail/mai-not/attachments/20081201/1f9cbda5/attachment.html From jomut at yahoo.com Mon Dec 1 14:47:21 2008 From: jomut at yahoo.com (John Mutambirwa) Date: Mon Dec 1 14:47:32 2008 Subject: [Mai-not] toneless harp Message-ID: <765957.63869.qm@web31105.mail.mud.yahoo.com> John Mutambirwa (Dreaming Awake) jomut@yahoo.com chakane@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/jomut ? Hi, ? Talking about Steven Harpers woes, Murray Dobbin wrote some interesting stuff about the the advantages of forming a coalition govt against Harper a little over a week ago.? Like most neocons who have acquired an ideological inhibition that has been incessantly drummed into them over the past generation or so, and are now faced with a situation, created by their?monied ideological sponsors, which they have little clue as to how to deal with,? Harper and co are resorting to a tactic displayed by beleagured govts in developing countries over the past generation and which has been very aptly referred to by Patrick Bond as "Talk Left and Walk Right". ? A very discordant harp! ? John ======= -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.globalproblematique.net/pipermail/mai-not/attachments/20081201/f8128b78/attachment.html From diongiles1 at aapt.net.au Mon Dec 1 17:19:18 2008 From: diongiles1 at aapt.net.au (Dion Giles) Date: Mon Dec 1 17:19:31 2008 Subject: [Mai-not] Credit crunch: UK toys with obvious solution Message-ID: <20081201231922.3ED3CF66C@fep07.mfe.bur.connect.com.au> See http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financetopics/budget/3521187/Pre-Budget-report-Outright-nationalisation-of-banks-may-be-necessary.html Timid, true, but most other leaders are worse (including Australia's Reverend Kevin Rudd, a very poor successor to Ben Chifley of the same party who set out in 1947-1949 to nationalise the whole boiling of them - later frustrated by Australia's quaint constitution). Dion Giles Western Australia From duanebehrens at cox.net Mon Dec 1 23:26:19 2008 From: duanebehrens at cox.net (Duane Behrens) Date: Mon Dec 1 23:26:20 2008 Subject: [Mai-not] Why 9/11 Still Matters Message-ID: <20081202002619.PWY5H.587571.imail@fed1rmwml30> Others have suggested that the truth of 9/11 is "fading into history" and that we will likely never know what happened, and that more people die of starvation in third world countries every week than died on 9/11. They may be correct on all counts. But I personally believe that, as we sink ever deeper into the police state that is predicated on the lies of 9/11, the effort in exposing those lies becomes ever more worthwhile, and ever more important. You know - I think the sirs really botched this one. They had the honey pots ready, and they had the media well in hand, but they underestimated the intelligence of millions of people who watched those three buildings fall on that day . . . . millions of people who, like me, have come to understand that steel buildings cannot physically fail in such a way as the result of anything but an introduced explosive force. Those people continue to demand that the true criminals of this crime be investigated and brought to justice - as well they should. With the American press kept so well in step, demands of justice from foreign citizens, foreign media and foreign governments becomes not only important, but critical. Yes, it may be a fading hope .. . but it may be all we have. Duane Behrens - an American From thinker at thelakebc.ca Tue Dec 2 12:06:55 2008 From: thinker at thelakebc.ca (Ed Deak) Date: Tue Dec 2 12:03:58 2008 Subject: [Mai-not] FW: Polar Bear Attack Message-ID: <200812021803.mB2I3kJN020426@karma.reboot.ca> > > > >Polar Bear Attack in Churchill, Manitoba, Canada. > >These are pictures of an actual polar bear attack in Churchill. > >These pictures were taken while people watched and could do nothing >to stop the attack! > >Reports from the local newspaper say that the victim will make >a full recovery. > > > >The photo's are below. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >[] > > >SMILE IT DOES YOUR HEART GOOD! > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 83a6f1.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 110683 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.globalproblematique.net/pipermail/mai-not/attachments/20081202/00f8eb34/83a6f1-0001.jpg From glparramatta at greenleft.org.au Tue Dec 2 20:07:28 2008 From: glparramatta at greenleft.org.au (glparramatta) Date: Tue Dec 2 20:27:49 2008 Subject: [Mai-not] What's new at Links: Elections in Venezuela; Mumbai; Arabic; economic crisis and the poor; Thailand; France; environment; Comintern Message-ID: <4935E9E0.9050101@greenleft.org.au> Subscribe free to Links - International Journal of Socialist Renewal - at http://www.feedblitz.com/f/?Sub=343373 Visit and bookmark http://links.org.au and add it to your RSS feed (http://links.org.au/rss.xml). If you would like us to consider an article, please send it to links@dsp.org.au *Please pass on to anybody you think will be interested in Links. * * * Venezuela: US-backed right wing murders unionists, attacks revolutionary gains A statement from the Australia-Venezuela Solidarity Network November 28, 2008 -- In the aftermath of the November 23 regional elections, Venezuela's right-wing opposition has launched, in the states it won, an all-out assault on grassroots community organisations... In the days following the elections, grassroots activists in Caracas, Miranda and Tachira have reported that the public community health clinics (part of Barrio Adentro, the free universal healthcare program), communal councils and other centres where social programs operate are being shut down or attacked by opposition party, despite the public assurances of at least one right-wing govenor-elect that the legal frameworks would be respected. * Read more Venezuela: After the regional elections, the workers propose a clean out and more revolution By Stalin Perez Borges, translated by Kiraz Janicke and Federico Fuentes for Links International Journal of Socialist Renewal November 25, 2008 -- I want to give some preliminary and personal impressions, in the heat of the moment, where many comrades are very preoccupied by the significance of the [Chavista movement's] loss of the Mayor of Greater Caracas and of some important or key governorships in the country. * Read more Venezuela's regional elections: Another vote for the revolution and Chavez (now with video, audio) Statement by the Australia-Venezuela Solidarity Network November 25, 2008 -- The results of the elections for local mayors and state governors held in Venezuela on November 23 underlined the continuing mass support for the Bolivarian revolution led by President Hugo Chavez. In a clear vote of confidence in the project to build socialism of the 21st century in Venezuela, the United Socialist Party of Venezuela (PSUV) -- formed just six months ago with Chavez as its president -- won 17 of the 22 states in which governors were elected. The United States-backed right-wing opposition won five states with a total of about 4 million votes, compared to the 5.5 million votes for the PSUV candidates. The elections were also a victory for democracy in Venezuela. * Read more Indian communists condemn Mumbai terror attack By Dipankar Bhattacharya, General Secretary, Communist Party of India (Marxist-Leninist) Liberation November 27, 2008 -- The CPI (ML) strongly condemns the attacks and offers deep condolences to the families of all those killed. * Read more The Flame, November 2008 - Green Left Weekly's Arabic supplement With the help of Socialist Alliance members in the growing Sudanese community in Australia, Green Left Weekly -- Australia's leading socialist newspaper -- is publishing a regular Arabic language supplement. The Flame will cover news from the Arabic-speaking world as well as news and issues from within Australia. The editor-in-chief will be Soubhi Iskander, a comrade who has endured years of imprisonment and torture at the hands of the repressive government in Sudan. * Read more David Harvey on the `Enigma of capital' and the current capitalist economic crisis A lecture by Professor David Harvey City University of New York Graduate Center November 14, 2008 1 hour 2 minutes * Read more Thailand: PAD thugs close Bangkok airport By Giles Ji Ungpakorn November 26, 2008 -- Bangkok International Airport has now been closed by fascist thugs from the anti-government People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD). The PAD is demanding that the elected government of Thailand resigns. This is despite the fact that the government has the backing of the majority of the Thai population and even the majority of Bangkok citizens. This backing has been proven by repeated elections. The PAD want a dictatorship to replace democracy because it deems the majority of the Thai electorate to be too ignorant to deserve the right to vote. * Read more France's New Anti-Capitalist Party: An exchange between Alex Callinicos (British SWP) and Fran?ois Sabado (LCR) Below are two articles which first appeared in Critique Communiste, and in English in the November issue of International Viewpoint, the magazine of the Fourth International. The first is by Alex Callinicos, a leader of the British Socialist Workers Party. The second, "The NPA, a new experience of building an anti-capitalist party", is a reply by Fran?ois Sabado, a leader of the Revolutionary Communist League (LCR). * Read more Making the world's poor pay: The economic crisis and the Global South [This article is available in Spanish: `Que paguen los pobres del mundo La crisis econ?mica y del Sur del glob' .] By Adam Hanieh November 22, 2008 -- The current global economic crisis has all the earmarks of an epoch-defining event. Mainstream economists - not usually known for their exaggerated language - now openly employ phrases like ``systemic meltdown'' and ``peering into the abyss''. On October 29, for example, Martin Wolf, one of the top financial commentators of the Financial Times, warned that the crisis portends "mass bankruptcy", "soaring unemployment" and a "catastrophe" that threatens "the legitimacy of the open market economy itself... the danger remains huge and time is short". * Read more Sydney, April 10-13 (Easter), 2009: World At a Crossroads - Fighting for Socialism in the 21st Century World At a Crossroads: Fighting for Socialism in the 21st Century * Read more Rifts and shifts and Marx -- Getting to the root of environmental crises By Brett Clark and Richard York Humans depend on functioning ecosystems to sustain themselves and their actions affect those same ecosystems. As a result, there is a necessary "metabolic interaction" between humans and the earth, which influences both natural and social history. Increasingly, the state of nature is being defined by the operations of the capitalist system, as anthropogenic forces are altering the global environment on a scale that is unprecedented. * Read more Proceedings of Fourth Congress of the Communist International to be published In October, John Riddell, co-editor of Socialist Voice, completed a draft translation of the proceedings of the Fourth Congress of the Communist International. This ambitious effort (more than 500,000 words) will make all of the resolutions, speeches, and debates from that important 1922 meeting, together with full explanatory annotation, available in English for the first time. The work, which Riddell is preparing in collaboration with the London-based journal Historical Materialism, is planned for publication in 2010. The British newspaper Socialist Worker interviewed John Riddell (below) about this project for its November 22, 2008, issue. * Read more * * * Links seeks to promote the international exchange of information, experience of struggle, theoretical analysis and views of political strategy and tactics within the international left. It is a forum for open and constructive dialogue between active socialists coming from different political traditions. It seeks to bring together those in the international left who are opposed to neoliberal economic and social policies. It aims to promote the renewal of the socialist movement in the wake of the collapse of the bureaucratic model of "actually existing socialism" in the Soviet Union and Eastern Europe. ATTENTION: Sign up for regular ``what's new'' announcement emails at http://www.feedblitz.com/f/?Sub=343373 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.globalproblematique.net/pipermail/mai-not/attachments/20081203/5118187c/attachment.html From glparramatta at greenleft.org.au Tue Dec 2 20:07:28 2008 From: glparramatta at greenleft.org.au (glparramatta) Date: Tue Dec 2 20:27:54 2008 Subject: [Mai-not] What's new at Links: Elections in Venezuela; Mumbai; Arabic; economic crisis and the poor; Thailand; France; environment; Comintern Message-ID: <4935E9E0.9050101@greenleft.org.au> Subscribe free to Links - International Journal of Socialist Renewal - at http://www.feedblitz.com/f/?Sub=343373 Visit and bookmark http://links.org.au and add it to your RSS feed (http://links.org.au/rss.xml). If you would like us to consider an article, please send it to links@dsp.org.au *Please pass on to anybody you think will be interested in Links. * * * Venezuela: US-backed right wing murders unionists, attacks revolutionary gains A statement from the Australia-Venezuela Solidarity Network November 28, 2008 -- In the aftermath of the November 23 regional elections, Venezuela's right-wing opposition has launched, in the states it won, an all-out assault on grassroots community organisations... In the days following the elections, grassroots activists in Caracas, Miranda and Tachira have reported that the public community health clinics (part of Barrio Adentro, the free universal healthcare program), communal councils and other centres where social programs operate are being shut down or attacked by opposition party, despite the public assurances of at least one right-wing govenor-elect that the legal frameworks would be respected. * Read more Venezuela: After the regional elections, the workers propose a clean out and more revolution By Stalin Perez Borges, translated by Kiraz Janicke and Federico Fuentes for Links International Journal of Socialist Renewal November 25, 2008 -- I want to give some preliminary and personal impressions, in the heat of the moment, where many comrades are very preoccupied by the significance of the [Chavista movement's] loss of the Mayor of Greater Caracas and of some important or key governorships in the country. * Read more Venezuela's regional elections: Another vote for the revolution and Chavez (now with video, audio) Statement by the Australia-Venezuela Solidarity Network November 25, 2008 -- The results of the elections for local mayors and state governors held in Venezuela on November 23 underlined the continuing mass support for the Bolivarian revolution led by President Hugo Chavez. In a clear vote of confidence in the project to build socialism of the 21st century in Venezuela, the United Socialist Party of Venezuela (PSUV) -- formed just six months ago with Chavez as its president -- won 17 of the 22 states in which governors were elected. The United States-backed right-wing opposition won five states with a total of about 4 million votes, compared to the 5.5 million votes for the PSUV candidates. The elections were also a victory for democracy in Venezuela. * Read more Indian communists condemn Mumbai terror attack By Dipankar Bhattacharya, General Secretary, Communist Party of India (Marxist-Leninist) Liberation November 27, 2008 -- The CPI (ML) strongly condemns the attacks and offers deep condolences to the families of all those killed. * Read more The Flame, November 2008 - Green Left Weekly's Arabic supplement With the help of Socialist Alliance members in the growing Sudanese community in Australia, Green Left Weekly -- Australia's leading socialist newspaper -- is publishing a regular Arabic language supplement. The Flame will cover news from the Arabic-speaking world as well as news and issues from within Australia. The editor-in-chief will be Soubhi Iskander, a comrade who has endured years of imprisonment and torture at the hands of the repressive government in Sudan. * Read more David Harvey on the `Enigma of capital' and the current capitalist economic crisis A lecture by Professor David Harvey City University of New York Graduate Center November 14, 2008 1 hour 2 minutes * Read more Thailand: PAD thugs close Bangkok airport By Giles Ji Ungpakorn November 26, 2008 -- Bangkok International Airport has now been closed by fascist thugs from the anti-government People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD). The PAD is demanding that the elected government of Thailand resigns. This is despite the fact that the government has the backing of the majority of the Thai population and even the majority of Bangkok citizens. This backing has been proven by repeated elections. The PAD want a dictatorship to replace democracy because it deems the majority of the Thai electorate to be too ignorant to deserve the right to vote. * Read more France's New Anti-Capitalist Party: An exchange between Alex Callinicos (British SWP) and Fran?ois Sabado (LCR) Below are two articles which first appeared in Critique Communiste, and in English in the November issue of International Viewpoint, the magazine of the Fourth International. The first is by Alex Callinicos, a leader of the British Socialist Workers Party. The second, "The NPA, a new experience of building an anti-capitalist party", is a reply by Fran?ois Sabado, a leader of the Revolutionary Communist League (LCR). * Read more Making the world's poor pay: The economic crisis and the Global South [This article is available in Spanish: `Que paguen los pobres del mundo La crisis econ?mica y del Sur del glob' .] By Adam Hanieh November 22, 2008 -- The current global economic crisis has all the earmarks of an epoch-defining event. Mainstream economists - not usually known for their exaggerated language - now openly employ phrases like ``systemic meltdown'' and ``peering into the abyss''. On October 29, for example, Martin Wolf, one of the top financial commentators of the Financial Times, warned that the crisis portends "mass bankruptcy", "soaring unemployment" and a "catastrophe" that threatens "the legitimacy of the open market economy itself... the danger remains huge and time is short". * Read more Sydney, April 10-13 (Easter), 2009: World At a Crossroads - Fighting for Socialism in the 21st Century World At a Crossroads: Fighting for Socialism in the 21st Century * Read more Rifts and shifts and Marx -- Getting to the root of environmental crises By Brett Clark and Richard York Humans depend on functioning ecosystems to sustain themselves and their actions affect those same ecosystems. As a result, there is a necessary "metabolic interaction" between humans and the earth, which influences both natural and social history. Increasingly, the state of nature is being defined by the operations of the capitalist system, as anthropogenic forces are altering the global environment on a scale that is unprecedented. * Read more Proceedings of Fourth Congress of the Communist International to be published In October, John Riddell, co-editor of Socialist Voice, completed a draft translation of the proceedings of the Fourth Congress of the Communist International. This ambitious effort (more than 500,000 words) will make all of the resolutions, speeches, and debates from that important 1922 meeting, together with full explanatory annotation, available in English for the first time. The work, which Riddell is preparing in collaboration with the London-based journal Historical Materialism, is planned for publication in 2010. The British newspaper Socialist Worker interviewed John Riddell (below) about this project for its November 22, 2008, issue. * Read more * * * Links seeks to promote the international exchange of information, experience of struggle, theoretical analysis and views of political strategy and tactics within the international left. It is a forum for open and constructive dialogue between active socialists coming from different political traditions. It seeks to bring together those in the international left who are opposed to neoliberal economic and social policies. It aims to promote the renewal of the socialist movement in the wake of the collapse of the bureaucratic model of "actually existing socialism" in the Soviet Union and Eastern Europe. ATTENTION: Sign up for regular ``what's new'' announcement emails at http://www.feedblitz.com/f/?Sub=343373 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.globalproblematique.net/pipermail/mai-not/attachments/20081203/5118187c/attachment-0001.html From thinker at thelakebc.ca Wed Dec 3 10:06:24 2008 From: thinker at thelakebc.ca (Ed Deak) Date: Wed Dec 3 10:03:12 2008 Subject: [Mai-not] My Efficiency Principle at work Message-ID: <200812031603.mB3G32l0023178@karma.reboot.ca> My Efficiency Principle at work. Cheers, Ed. At 01:04 AM 03/12/2008, =?iso-8859-2?Q?K=E1ncz_Csaba?= wrote: >DER SPIEGL, December 1, 2008 > >KYOTO II IN POZNAN >Just as the world gathers in Poland to come up with a new treaty to >replace the Kyoto Protocol, the global financial meltdown threatens >to torpedo the effort. But could a world recession actually help the climate? > > > >http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,593712,00.html > > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.9.12/1824 - Release Date: >12/2/2008 9:31 AM From papadop at peak.org Wed Dec 3 09:36:29 2008 From: papadop at peak.org (MichaelP) Date: Wed Dec 3 10:23:34 2008 Subject: [Mai-not] Cal law not preempted by U$ Marijuana law Message-ID: http://www.safeaccessnow.org/article.php?id=5614 Americans for Safe Access - Advancing Legal Medical Marijuana Therapeutics and Research For Immediate Release: December 1st, 2008 U.S. Supreme Court: State Medical Marijuana Laws Not Preempted by Federal Law Medical marijuana case appealed by the City of Garden Grove was denied review today Washington, DC -- The U.S. Supreme Court refused to review a landmark decision today in which California state courts found that its medical marijuana law was not preempted by federal law. The state appellate court decision from November 28, 2007, ruled that "it is not the job of the local police to enforce the federal drug laws." The case, involving Felix Kha, a medical marijuana patient from Garden Grove, was the result of a wrongful seizure of medical marijuana by local police in June 2005. Medical marijuana advocates hailed today's decision as a huge victory in clarifying law enforcement's obligation to uphold state law. Advocates assert that better adherence to state medical marijuana laws by local police will result in fewer needless arrests and seizures. In turn, this will allow for better implementation of medical marijuana laws not only in California, but in all states that have adopted such laws. "It's now settled that state law enforcement officers cannot arrest medical marijuana patients or seize their medicine simply because they prefer the contrary federal law," said Joe Elford, Chief Counsel with Americans for Safe Access (ASA), the medical marijuana advocacy organization that represented the defendant Felix Kha in a case that the City of Garden Grove appealed to the U.S. Supreme Court. "Perhaps, in the future local government will think twice about expending significant time and resources to defy a law that is overwhelmingly supported by the people of our state." California medical marijuana patient Felix Kha was pulled over by the Garden Grove Police Department and cited for possession of marijuana, despite Kha showing the officers proper documentation. The charge against Kha was subsequently dismissed, with the Superior Court of Orange County issuing an order to return Kha's wrongfully seized 8 grams of medical marijuana. The police, backed by the City of Garden Grove, refused to return Kha's medicine and the city appealed. Before the 41-page decision was issued a year ago by California's Fourth District Court of Appeal, the California Attorney General filed a "friend of the court" brief on behalf of Kha's right to possess his medicine. The California Supreme Court then denied review in March. "The source of local law enforcement's resistance to upholding state law is an outdated, harmful federal policy with regard to medical marijuana," said ASA spokesperson Kris Hermes. "This should send a message to the federal government that it's time to establish a compassionate policy more consistent with the 13 states that have adopted medical marijuana laws." Further information: Today's U.S. Supreme Court Order denying review: http://AmericansForSafeAccess.org/downloads/Kha_USSC.pdf From jfos at vic.australis.com.au Wed Dec 3 17:30:53 2008 From: jfos at vic.australis.com.au (john foster) Date: Wed Dec 3 17:31:41 2008 Subject: [Mai-not] Fw: [S] London Musicians Must Give Police Swathes Of Personal InformationTo Perform Live Message-ID: <012b01c9559f$42edc6d0$41ad57ca@jfos> ----- Original Message ----- To: 911Truth Australia Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 More control, more censorship, more... Less and less our freedom and rights... London Musicians Must Give Police Swathes Of Personal Information To Perform Live http://www.prisonplanet.com/london-musicians-must-give-police-swathes-of-personal-information-to-perform-live.htmlEight page form will detail names, aliases, private addresses, phone numbers of all musicians and ethnic background of the likely audience Steve Watson Infowars.net Tuesday, Dec 2, 2008 Musicians and performers in London will soon be required by law to complete and hand over to police an eight page form detailing all their personal information and the ethnic background of their audience if they want to perform. The information will be collected by venue owners and managers throughout the city, who will have to adhere to the process should they wish to promote live music. Failure to comply with the information demanded on Form 696 could mean the loss of a licence or even a fine and imprisonment, reports the London Independent. Police quietly introduced the legislation in 2006, and have recently defended it, saying they need the details in order to ensure safety and $B!H(Bidentify troublemakers$B!I(B. Groups of musicians and promoters have slammed the move, suggesting that it will harm the live music scene and encourages venues to effectively spy on patrons. Others have described the bureaucratic process as a form of racial discrimination. There are also fears that the legislation will be applied throughout the country if it is accepted in the capital. The Musicians$B!G(B Union is consulting lawyers over the invasion of privacy, while another group, UK Music is seeking a judicial review. As with most recent legislative erosions of civil liberties, form 696 is a phenomenon of the culture of fear our governments have consistently fashioned and promoted over the past decade. In a post 9/11 / post 7/7 world, everyone is treated as a suspect until proven otherwise, especially if you have brown skin and a foreign sounding name. Musicians and performers are no exception. Take the case of The Clash tribute band member Mike Devine who was arrested at his office in Bristol and taken away for questioning after he sent an SMS text message containing lyrics from the song Tommy Gun to his lead singer who had forgotten the words. The message read: $B!H(BHow about this for Tommy Gun? OK - SO LET$B!G(BS AGREE ABOUT THE PRICE AND MAKE IT ONE JET AIRLINER AND TEN PRISONERS$B!I(B A terrorism analyst told reporters that the interception provided proof that Britain$B!G(Bs spy teams at GCHQ were actively monitoring all vocal and textual mobile phone traffic. That was 2004, now in 2008 the British Government has openly announced that it wants to make that very practice lawful. In a similar incident, Harraj Mann was reported to the British airport police for listening to a Clash record in a taxi on the way to the airport. The weasel driver was so frightened by some of the lyrics that he took them as a rallying call for a terrorist attack. Of course it is unlikely that the police or the government will raise an eyebrow to the mindless gibberish passing for lyrical content in the majority of musical performers$B!G(B work. Ask yourself, who is more likely to be classed as the $B!H(Btroublemaker$B!I(B? Will it be the performers who sing endlessly about money, bling and easy girls or will it be those who wish to address real issues and make their audiences think about more than the pursuit of expensive baubles and trinkets? Sign a petition to the Prime Minister Gordon Brown to get the Metropolitan Police to scrap the use of Form 696. Facebook Group - Stand Up To Form 696 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.globalproblematique.net/pipermail/mai-not/attachments/20081204/cf3e2255/attachment-0001.html From jfos at vic.australis.com.au Wed Dec 3 15:19:31 2008 From: jfos at vic.australis.com.au (john foster) Date: Wed Dec 3 17:31:42 2008 Subject: [Mai-not] Fw: [S] The Global Justice Movement: a response to the economic crisis Message-ID: <012701c9559f$3d632ac0$41ad57ca@jfos> Skipped content of type multipart/alternative-------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: ATT00000.dat Type: application/octet-stream Size: 1405 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.globalproblematique.net/pipermail/mai-not/attachments/20081204/6745bc77/ATT00000-0001.obj From thinker at thelakebc.ca Wed Dec 3 18:33:16 2008 From: thinker at thelakebc.ca (Ed Deak) Date: Wed Dec 3 18:30:00 2008 Subject: [Mai-not] Canadians for a Progressive Coalition Message-ID: <200812040029.mB40ToY1029688@karma.reboot.ca> From: "Canadians for a Progressive Coalition" To: main@progressivecoalition.ca Subject: All the chips are on the table Hello everyone, All of the chips are on the table. This grassroots movement does not have the budget of the Conservative party. Instead, we we have each other. We can cut through the Conservative counter-offensive to make sure that the voices of over 60% of Canadians rallying for a progressive coalition are heard! There are 10,000 of you on this listserv. So many, that this message may not reach some of you until after Harper's message. So - this message assumes he does not resign and let the coalition govern. We need everything you have to reach our goals for this week: winning the struggle in the media for the hearts and minds of Canadians uncertain about a coalition and showing the progressive parties that Canadians support them. In addition to usual - letters to the editor, call in radio, forwarding this message - we need you to: Sign up 5 Friends We are going to submit the petition on Friday and it needs to be absolutely massive. In order to increase our already impressive numbers on our petition, we are challenging everyone on the mailing list to get 5 of their friends to sign the petition. The petition is at: http://www.progressivecoalition.ca/ You can email them the direct link by clicking on the "share" button at progressivecoalition.ca/form.php, then clicking on "email". Alternatively, you could forward them this message! Join a rally, Bring a Petition! There are a variety of rallies happening on that day. They are listed on our facebook event page, www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=55449301160, and on our website, progressivecoalition.ca (Under the "Show your Support" link), and others at makeparliamentwork.ca. These rallies are great time to collect additional signatures for our petition, which we are aiming to present to the Leaders of the Opposition on Friday. If you are attending any of the rallies posted, or any other events, please bring along a copy of the paper petition, which can be found at the following address: progressivecoalition.ca/petition.pdf Please get signatures only from those who have not already signed our online petition at progressivecoalition.ca. After you have collected the signatures, please add them to this spreadsheet: progressivecoalition.ca/petitioninput.xls , and send the completed excel files to events@progressivecoalition.ca . Light a Candle for the Coalition! We want to spark a new spirit of cooperation in Parliament. On Wednesday night at 8PM, light a candle in front of a street-facing window and turn off the light in the room for 20 minutes. (Make sure to keep the candle away from anything that can catch fire!) On Thursday, at 5PM we are organizing Candles for a Coalition events across the country. We are going to take pictures and show Canadians from coast to coast support a coalition. If you can't attend a major event invite some of your friends over to light candles or do it yourself. Send us pictures! Bring your own candle! And spread the word! Rally locations: VICTORIA Candles for a Coalition ? Thursday Dec 4 5:00 PM, Location: Hillside and Douglas Street VANCOUVER Candles for a Coalition - Thursday Dec 4 5:15, in Front of the Trades and Convention Centre Will join the Make Parliment Work Rally afterwards GUELPH Candles for a Coalition ? Thursday Dec 4 7:00pm, St. George's Square GUELPH RALLY - Saturday, December 6th 12:00pm St. George's Square Stratford, Ontario Candles for Canada - Thur Dec 4 5-7pm March to City Hall Meet Ontario St between Downie and Waterloo Streets Walk to city hall at 7pm GREAT VILLAGE, Nova Scotia Candles for Coalition in the Village! When: 6 pm, Thursday, December 4th Where: 33 Lornevale Road Cheers, Canadians for a Progressive Coalition No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.9.13/1826 - Release Date: 12/3/2008 9:34 AM From siamdave at yahoo.ca Wed Dec 3 18:45:42 2008 From: siamdave at yahoo.ca (Dave Patterson) Date: Wed Dec 3 18:45:57 2008 Subject: SAD (you heard it here first Re: [Mai-not] Fw: [S] The Global Justice Movement: a response to the economic crisis In-Reply-To: <012701c9559f$3d632ac0$41ad57ca@jfos> References: <012701c9559f$3d632ac0$41ad57ca@jfos> Message-ID: <200812040745420234.0067D1C2@smtp-adsl.totonline.net> What I don't see here is anything about Democracy, real democracy, as the first and only really necessary principle - it looks like a shopping list the peasants are going to present to the king, if they ever stop arguing about the scores of details, which they won't. Democracy means there is no shopping list, there is no king, there are no peasants - we the people meet and decide what we want to do, and do it. (which would not include 'socializing the banks', but would include recognizing that allowing private banks to create our money supply is completely inconsistent with true democracy, so democratizing the money supply would be at the top of the list, right after democracy - I suppose this is what Mr Dodgson had in mind with Through the Looking Glass and the hookah 'smoking' caterpillar - two things that are never going to happen in today's world, thus all else is smoke and mirrors). Call it SAD - social anarchistic democracy. No leaders, no peasants, no supplications to the king, no political parties to shore up a pretend 'democracy', only intelligent, concerned, engaged citizens making a decent society for us all (well, the predators might be a bit unhappy at first, but given time they will see this is best for them too, as we draw a circle big enough to take them in, as the old song goes). We have it on Green Island if anyone has not heard yet, Green Island http://www.rudemacedon.ca/greenisland.html . But then that is fantasy too. *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 08-12-04 at 8:19 AM john foster wrote: Injustice ANYWHERE is a threat to justice EVERYWHERE - Martin Luther King Jnr The global economic crisis: An historic opportunity for transformation This document is available at: http://casinocrash.org/?p=235 .. October 23rd, 2008 An initial response from individuals, social movements and non-governmental organisations in support of a transitional programme for radical economic transformation Beijing, 15 October 2008 Español - Français - Italiano - Magyar Preamble Taking advantage of the opportunity of so many people from movements gathering in Beijing during the Asia-Europe People’s Forum, the Transnational Institute and Focus on the Global South convened informal nightly meetings between 13 and 15 October 2008. We took stock of the meaning of the unfolding global economic crisis and the opportunity it presents for us to put into the public domain some of the inspiring and feasible alternatives many of us have been working on for decades. This statement represents the collective outcome of our Beijing nights. We, the initial signatories, mean this to be a contribution towards efforts to formulate proposals around which our movements can organise as the basis for a radically different kind of political and economic order. Please sign on to this statement by adding your name in the comments section on the website: See http://casinocrash.org/?p=235 The Crisis The global financial system is unravelling at great speed. This is happening in the midst of a multiplicity of crises in relation to food, climate and energy. It severely weakens the power of the US and the EU, and the global institutions they dominate, particularly the International Monetary Fund, the World Bank and the World Trade Organisation. Not only is the legitimacy of the neo-liberal paradigm in question, but the very future of capitalism itself. Such is the chaos in the global financial system that Northern governments have resorted to measures progressive movements have advocated for years, such as nationalisation of banks. These moves are intended, however, as short-term stabilisation measures and once the storm clears, they are likely to return the banks to the private sector. We have a short window of opportunity to mobilise so that they are not. The challenge and the opportunity We are entering uncharted terrain with this conjuncture of profound crises – the fall out from the financial crisis will be severe. People are being thrown into a deep sense of insecurity; misery and hardship will increase for many poorer people everywhere. We should not cede this moment to fascist, right wing populist, xenophobic groups, who will surely try to take advantage of people’s fear and anger for reactionary ends. Powerful movements against neo-liberalism have been built over many decades. This will grow as critical coverage of the crisis enlightens more people, who are already angry at public funds being diverted to pay for problems they are not responsible for creating, and already concerned about the ecological crisis and rising prices – especially of food and energy. The movements will grow further as recession starts to bite and economies start sinking into depression. There is a new openness to alternatives. To capture people’s attention and support, they must be practical and immediately feasible. We have convincing alternatives that are already underway, and we have many other good ideas attempted in the past, but defeated. Our alternatives put the well-being of people and the planet at their centre. For this, democratic control over financial and economic institutions are required. This is the “red thread” connecting up the proposals presented below. See http://casinocrash.org/?p=235 Proposals for debate, elaboration and action Finance • Introduce full-scale socialisation of banks, not just nationalisation of bad assets. • Create people-based banking institutions and strengthen existing popular forms of lending based on mutuality and solidarity. • Institutionalise full transparency within the financial system through the opening of the books to the public, to be facilitated by citizen and worker organisations. • Introduce parliamentary and citizens’ oversight of the existing banking system • Apply social ( including labour conditions) and environmental criteria to all lending, including for business purposes • Prioritise lending, at minimum rates of interest, to meet social and environmental needs and to expand the already growing social economy • Overhaul central banks in line with democratically determined social, environmental and expansionary (to counter the recession) objectives, and make them publicly accountable institutions. • Safeguard migrant remittances to their families and introduce legislation to restrict charges and taxes on transfers Taxation • Close all tax havens • End tax breaks for fossil fuel and nuclear energy companies • Apply stringent progressive tax systems • Introduce a global taxation system to prevent transfer pricing and tax evasion • Introduce a levy on nationalised bank profits with which to establish citizen investment funds (see below) • Impose stringent progressive carbon taxes on those with the biggest carbon footprints • Adopt controls, such as Tobin taxes, on the movements of speculative capital • Re-introduce tariffs and duties on imports of luxury goods and other goods already produced locally as a means of increasing the state’s fiscal base, as well as a means to support local production and thereby reduce carbon emissions globally Public Spending and Investment • Radically reduce military spending • Redirect government spending from bailing out bankers to guaranteeing basic incomes and social security, and providing universally accessible basic social services such as housing, water, electricity, health, education, child care, and access to the internet and other public communications facilities. • Use citizen funds (see above) to support very poor communities • Ensure that people at risk of losing their homes due to defaults on mortgages caused by the crisis are offered renegotiated terms of payment • Stop privatisations of public services • Establish public enterprises under the control of parliaments, local communities and/or workers to increase employment • Improve the performance of public enterprises through democratising management - encourage public service managers, staff, unions and consumer organisations to collaborate to this end • Introduce participatory budgeting over public finances at all feasible levels • Invest massively in improved energy efficiency, low carbon emitting public transport, renewable energy and environmental repair • Control or subsidise the prices of basic commodities International Trade and Finance • Introduce a permanent global ban on short-selling of stock and shares • Ban on trade in derivatives • Ban all speculation on staple food commodities • Cancel the debt of all developing countries – debt is mounting as the crisis causes the value of Southern currencies to fall • Support the United Nations call to be involved in discussions about how the to resolve the crisis, which is going to have a much bigger impact on Southern economies than is currently being acknowledged • Phase out the World Bank, International Monetary Fund, and World Trade Organisation • Phase out the US dollar as the international reserve currency • Establish a people’s inquiry into the mechanisms necessary for a just international monetary system. • Ensure aid transfers do not fall as a result of the crisis • Abolish tied aid • Abolish neo-liberal aid conditionalities • Phase out the paradigm of export-led development, and refocus sustainable development on production for the local and regional market • Introduce incentives for products produced for sale closest to the local market • Cancel all negotiations for bilateral free trade and economic partnership agreements • Promote regional economic co-operation arrangements, such as UNASUR, the Bolivarian Alternative for the Americas (ALBA), the Trade Treaty of the Peoples and others, that encourage genuine development and an end to poverty. Environment • Introduce a global system of compensation for countries which do not exploit fossil fuel reserves in the global interests of limiting effects on the climate, such as Ecuador has proposed. • Pay reparations to Southern countries for the ecological destruction wrought by the North to assist peoples of the South to deal with climate change and other environmental crises. • Strictly implement the “precautionary principle” of the UN Declaration on the Right to Development as a condition for all developmental and environmental projects. • End lending for projects under the Kyoto Protocol’s “Clean Development Mechanism” that are environmentally destructive, such as monoculture plantations of eucalyptus, soya and palm oil. • Stop the development of carbon trading and other environmentally counter-productive techno-fixes, such as carbon capture and sequestration, agrofuels, nuclear power and ‘clean coal’ technology. • Adopt strategies to radically reduce consumption in the rich countries, while promoting sustainable development in poorer countries • Introduce democratic management of all international funding mechanisms for climate change mitigation, with strong participation from Southern countries and civil society. Agriculture and Industry • Phase out the pernicious paradigm of industry-led development, where the rural sector is squeezed to provide the resources necessary to support industrialisation and urbanisation • Promote agricultural strategies aimed at achieving food security, food sovereignty and sustainable farming. • Promote land reforms and other measures which support small holder agriculture and sustain peasant and indigenous communities • Stop the spread of socially and environmentally destructive mono-cultural enterprises. • Stop labour law reforms aimed at extending hours of work and making it easier for employers to fire or retrench workers • Secure jobs through outlawing precarious low paid work • Guarantee equal pay for equal work for women – as a basic principle and to help counter the coming recession by increasing workers’ capacity to consume. • Protect the rights of migrant workers in the event of job losses, ensuring their safe return to and reintegration into their home countries. For those who cannot return, there should be no forced return, their security should be guaranteed, and they should be provided with employment or a basic minimum income. Conclusion These are all practical, common sense proposals. Some are initiatives already underway and demonstrably feasible. Their successes need to be publicised and popularised so as to inspire reproduction. Others are unlikely to be implemented on their objective merits alone. Political will is required. By implication, therefore, every proposal is a call to action. We have written what we see as a living document to be developed and enriched by us all. Please sign on to this statement at the bottom of the page. A future occasion to come together to work on the actions needed to make these ideas and others a reality will be the World Social Forum in Belem, Brazil at the end of January 2009. We have the experience and the ideas - let’s meet the challenge of the present ruling disorder and keep the momentum towards an alternative rolling!! See http://casinocrash.org/?p=235 Signatories Latest update with endorsements: http://casinocrash.org/?p=235 Organisations: Transnational Institute, Netherlands Focus on the Global South Red Pepper magazine, United Kingdom Institute for Global Research and Social Movements, Russia Ecologistas en Acción, Spain JS - Asia/Pacific Movement on Debt and Development (JS APMDD), Asia RESPECT Network Europe, Europe Commission for Filipino Migrant Workers (CFMW), Netherlands The Movement for a Just World, Malaysia Nord-Sud XXI, Switzerland Europe Solidaire Sans Frontières (ESSF), France Indian Social Action Forum (INSAF), Inadi Movimiento Madre Tierra, Honduras Asian Bridge, South Korea/ Philippines Center for Encounter and Active Non-Violence, Austria The Alliance of Progressive Labor (APL) Pakistan Institute of Labour Education and Research (PILER), Pakistan Pambansang Katipunan ng Makabayang Magbubukid-PKMM (National Federation of Patriotic Peasant), Phillipines Proresibong Alyansa ng mga Mangingisda-PANGISDA (Progresive Alliance of Fisher), Philippines WomanHealth, Philippines Kilusan para sa Pambansang Demokrasya (KPD), Philippines Fisherfolk Movement Philippines Democratic Socialist Perspective, Australia Resistance & Alternative, Mauritius Observatori del Deute en la Globalització, Spain African Journalists on Trade and Development Centre for Education and Communication (CEC), India EQUATIONS, India ESK-Basque Land, Basque Country Common Frontiers, Canada Alab-Katipunan, Philippines Finnish Asiatic Society, Finland Alab-Katipunan, Philippines Finnish Asiatic Society, Finland Red Constantino, Philippines Intercultural Resources, India Women’s March Against Poverty and Globalization (WELGA) FDC Women’s Committee Bharatiya Krishak Samaj (Indian farmers organization) Peace for All International Development Organization, Canada/Uganda Foundation for Media Alternatives, Philippines The Philippine Rural Reconstruction Movement , Philippines The Freedom from Debt Coalition-Iloilo, Philippines Jubilee Eastern Cape, South Africa SdL intercategoriale, Italy Foro Ciudadano de Participación por la Justicia y los Derechos Humanos, Argentina APRODEH (Asociacion Pro Derechos Humanos), Peru Attac Spain, Spain HealthWrights, Workgroup for People’s Health and Rights, US Ander Europa, Netherlands Enlightening Indonesia, Indonesia SolidaritéS, Switzerland ATTAC Hungary Association Internationale de Techniciens, Experts et Chercheurs (AITEC), Frence Individuals: Fiona Dove, South Africa Walden Bello, Philippines/Thailand Hilary Wainwright, United Kingdom Boris Kagarlitsky, Russia Achin Vanaik, India Dot Keet, South Africa Brid Brennan, Ireland Pietje Vervest, Netherlands Cecilia Olivet, Uruguay Ramon Fernandez, Spain Pierre Rousset, France Rodney Bickerstaffe, United Kingdom Von Francis C Mesina, Philippines Al D. Senturias, Jr., Philippines Sammy Gamboa, Philippines Fe Jusay, Philippines Nonoi Hacbang, Philippines Lidy Nacpil, Philippines Tom Kucharz, Spain Herbert Docena, Philippines Seema Mustafa, India Kenneth Haar, Denmark Wolfram Schaffar, Germany Christa Wichterich, Germany Isabelle Duquesne, France Adhemar Mineiro, Brazil Benny Kuruvilla, India Aehwa Kim, South Korea Manjette Lopez, Philippines Bonn Juego, Philippines Rasti Delizo, Philippines James Miraflor, Philippines Miquel Ortega Cerda, Spain David Llistar, Spain Alpo Ratia, Finland Mira Kakonen, Finland Hilary Chiew, Malaysia Celeste Fong, Malaysia Tatcee Macabuag, Philippines Teodoro M. de Mesa, Philippines Uwe Hoering, Germany Asad Rehman, UK Andy Rutherford, UK Debbie Valencia, Greece Petra Snelders, Netherlands Etta P. Rosales, Philippines Pete Pinlac, Philippines Ute Hausrnann, Germany Alain Baron, France Hanneke van Eldik Thieme, Netherlands Dorothy Guerrero, Philippines Ric Reyes, Philippines Dr. Chandra Muzaffar, Malaysia Ahmad Soueissi, Switzerland Elias Davidsson, Germany Juan Almendares, Honduras Carlos Ruiz Alexis Passadakis Sally Rousset, France D.W.Karuna Hyowoo Na, South Korea Sung-Hee Choi, Korea Marko Ulvila, Finland Matthias Reichl, Austria Orsan Senalp, Turkey/The Netherlans Tamra Gilbertson, Unites States Prof. Kamal Mitra Chenoy, India Prof Anuradha Chenoy, India Gilbert Achcar, UK Richel “Ching” M. Borres, Philippines Helen Mendoza, Philippines Sukla Sen, India Olli-Pekka Haavisto, Finland Amira Armenta, Colombia William K. Carroll, United States Gigi Francisco, Philippines Sylvia Estrada Claudio, Philippines Pablo Rosales, Philippines Alice Raymundo, Philippines Maris dela Cruz, Philippines Terry Townsend, Australia Ashok Subron, Mauritius Ko Ko Thett Einar Ólafsson, Iceland Anjani Abella, Philippines Gianni Alioti, Italy Dr Michael Williams Peter Lavina, Philippines Gina Cantano-Dela Cruz, Philippines Cecilia Jimenez, Philippines/Switzerland Thierry De Coster Sushovan Dhar, India Krishan Bir Chaudhary, India Dave Tucker Bruno Ciccaglione, Italy/Austria Haydi Zulfei , Asia Adam Davidson-Harden, Canada Al Alegre, Philippines Tom Mertes Elâabadila Chbihna, Morocco John A. Fitzpatrick Matyas Benyik Roger Keyes Ted Aldwin Ong, Philippines Romero P. Gerochi, Philippines C.P. Vinod, India Laurence Schechtman Berend Schuitema, South Africa Francesco Martone, Italy Asbjørn Wahl, Norway Teodolita S. Lopez-Suano, Philippines Hans Schäppi, Switzerland Rasigan Maharajh Anna Camposampiero, Italy Lorenzo Pellegrini, Italy/Netherlands Rashmi Shetty, India Wahyu Susilo, Malaysia Fabrizio Tomaselli, Italy Rayhan Rashid, Bangladesh Saskia Poldervaart, Netherlands Pierluigi Tedeschi, Italy Gladys Baldew, Netherlands Francisco Soberon, Peru Erik Eriksson, Sweden Marco Cuevas-Hewitt Luigia Pasi - Italy Maximo Kinast Aviles Paul R. Woods Antonio Carlos Diegues, Brazil Luis David Saraiva Grivol, Brazil Nick Dearden, UK David Werner, US Håkan Danielsson, Sweden Wouter F.A.Snip, Netherlands Valdimar Jóhannsson, Iceland Vida Viktor, Hungary Edgardo Lander, Venezuela Yvon Thea Young-Ang, Philippines Khristine Alvarez, Philippines Hayri Kozanoglu, Turkey Manfred Schiess, Germany Antonio Gomez Movellan, Spain Enrique Baigorri Remirez, Spain Gunilla Andersson, Sweden Matyas Benyik, Hungary Kathia Ridore, France Willem Bos, Netherlands Irendra Radjawali, Indonesia Jean Batou, Switzerland Hector de la Cueva, Mexico Maurizio Casetta, Italy Adriana Nicoleta Filip, Italy Kathia Ridore, France Susana Barria, Suiza Julia de Souza, Brazil -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.globalproblematique.net/pipermail/mai-not/attachments/20081204/13054319/attachment-0001.html From siamdave at yahoo.ca Wed Dec 3 18:53:09 2008 From: siamdave at yahoo.ca (Dave Patterson) Date: Wed Dec 3 18:53:11 2008 Subject: [Mai-not] Canadians for a Progressive Coalition In-Reply-To: <200812040029.mB40ToY1029688@karma.reboot.ca> References: <200812040029.mB40ToY1029688@karma.reboot.ca> Message-ID: <200812040753090093.006EA34D@smtp-adsl.totonline.net> My feeling is that if there are not SOLID guarantees about putting an effective Proportional Representation at the top of the 'to do' list (not a cure all for sure, but a big step in the right direction), and some equally serious talk at least from the NDP about educating Canadians about where our money comes from and how that is related to the current economic crisis, which MUST be understood if we are to take any effective measures to get our economy back on a more stable footing (which it has not been since the neocons started deregulating everything including banks back in the 70s), then this is just more dog and pony show stuff. Interesting, to be sure, but tweedledee-tweedledum puppet shows for the masses. Distracting everyone from more important things. As always. same old same old. Christmas is coming, folks, look at the new entertainments!! (and one needs to consider how much of this the people pushing these things understand as well, how much they are part of the dog and pony show themselves ... no doubt many of them are well-meaning but not deep thinking foot soldiers, but those at the top - hmmmm) *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 08-12-03 at 4:33 PM Ed Deak wrote: >From: "Canadians for a Progressive Coalition" > >To: main@progressivecoalition.ca >Subject: All the chips are on the table > >Hello everyone, > >All of the chips are on the table. This >grassroots movement does not have the budget of >the Conservative party. Instead, we we have each >other. We can cut through the Conservative >counter-offensive to make sure that the voices of >over 60% of Canadians rallying for a progressive >coalition are heard! There are 10,000 of you on >this listserv. So many, that this message may not >reach some of you until after Harper's message. >So - this message assumes he does not resign and let the coalition govern. > >We need everything you have to reach our goals >for this week: winning the struggle in the media >for the hearts and minds of Canadians uncertain >about a coalition and showing the progressive >parties that Canadians support them. In addition >to usual - letters to the editor, call in radio, >forwarding this message - we need you to: > >Sign up 5 Friends > >We are going to submit the petition on Friday and >it needs to be absolutely massive. In order to >increase our already impressive numbers on our >petition, we are challenging everyone on the >mailing list to get 5 of their friends to sign >the petition. The petition is at: >http://www.progressivecoalition.ca/ > >You can email them the direct link by clicking on >the "share" button at >progressivecoalition.ca/form.php, >then clicking on "email". Alternatively, you >could forward them this message! > >Join a rally, Bring a Petition! > >There are a variety of rallies happening on that >day. They are listed on our facebook event page, >www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=55449301160, >and on our website, >progressivecoalition.ca >(Under the "Show your Support" link), and others >at >makeparliamentwork.ca. >These rallies are great time to collect >additional signatures for our petition, which we >are aiming to present to the Leaders of the Opposition on Friday. > >If you are attending any of the rallies posted, >or any other events, please bring along a copy of >the paper petition, which can be found at the >following >address: >progressivecoalition.ca/petition.pdf >Please get signatures only from those who have >not already signed our online petition at >progressivecoalition.ca. >After you have collected the signatures, please >add them to this >spreadsheet: >progressivecoalition.ca/petitioninput.xls >, and send the completed excel files to >events@progressivecoalition.ca . > >Light a Candle for the Coalition! > >We want to spark a new spirit of cooperation in Parliament. > >On Wednesday night at 8PM, light a candle in >front of a street-facing window and turn off the >light in the room for 20 minutes. (Make sure to >keep the candle away from anything that can catch fire!) > >On Thursday, at 5PM we are organizing Candles for >a Coalition events across the country. We are >going to take pictures and show Canadians from >coast to coast support a coalition. If you can't >attend a major event invite some of your friends >over to light candles or do it yourself. Send us pictures! > > >Bring your own candle! And spread the word! > >Rally locations: > >VICTORIA Candles for a Coalition – Thursday Dec 4 >5:00 PM, Location: Hillside and Douglas Street > >VANCOUVER Candles for a Coalition - Thursday Dec 4 >5:15, in Front of the Trades and Convention Centre >Will join the Make Parliment Work Rally afterwards > >GUELPH Candles for a Coalition – Thursday Dec 4 >7:00pm, St. George's Square > >GUELPH RALLY - Saturday, December 6th >12:00pm St. George's Square > >Stratford, Ontario Candles for Canada - Thur Dec 4 >5-7pm March to City Hall >Meet Ontario St between Downie and Waterloo Streets >Walk to city hall at 7pm > >GREAT VILLAGE, Nova Scotia >Candles for Coalition in the Village! >When: 6 pm, Thursday, December 4th >Where: 33 Lornevale Road > >Cheers, >Canadians for a Progressive Coalition >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.9.13/1826 >- Release Date: 12/3/2008 9:34 AM > > >_______________________________________________ >Mai-not mailing list >Mai-not@globalproblematique.net >http://www.globalproblematique.net/mailman/listinfo/mai-not > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.9.13/1827 - Release Date: 3/12/2551 17:41 From thinker at thelakebc.ca Wed Dec 3 21:19:07 2008 From: thinker at thelakebc.ca (Ed Deak) Date: Wed Dec 3 21:15:50 2008 Subject: [Mai-not] Canadians for a Progressive Coalition In-Reply-To: <200812040753090093.006EA34D@smtp-adsl.totonline.net> References: <200812040029.mB40ToY1029688@karma.reboot.ca> <200812040753090093.006EA34D@smtp-adsl.totonline.net> Message-ID: <200812040315.mB43FhUw007052@karma.reboot.ca> I agree with you Dave and am not a fan of either of them, even with an NDP membership I just renewed. The problem is the alternative. At this stage, and I feared this for years, anybody but Harper. Cheers, Ed. At 04:53 PM 03/12/2008, you wrote: >My feeling is that if there are not SOLID >guarantees about putting an effective >Proportional Representation at the top of the >'to do' list (not a cure all for sure, but a big >step in the right direction), and some equally >serious talk at least from the NDP about >educating Canadians about where our money comes >from and how that is related to the current >economic crisis, which MUST be understood if we >are to take any effective measures to get our >economy back on a more stable footing (which it >has not been since the neocons started >deregulating everything including banks back in >the 70s), then this is just more dog and pony >show stuff. Interesting, to be sure, but >tweedledee-tweedledum puppet shows for the >masses. Distracting everyone from more important >things. As always. same old same old. Christmas >is coming, folks, look at the new >entertainments!! (and one needs to consider how >much of this the people pushing these things >understand as well, how much they are part of >the dog and pony show themselves ... no doubt >many of them are well-meaning but not deep >thinking foot soldiers, but those at the top - hmmmm) > >*********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** > >On 08-12-03 at 4:33 PM Ed Deak wrote: > > >From: "Canadians for a Progressive Coalition" > > > >To: main@progressivecoalition.ca > >Subject: All the chips are on the table > > > >Hello everyone, > > > >All of the chips are on the table. This > >grassroots movement does not have the budget of > >the Conservative party. Instead, we we have each > >other. We can cut through the Conservative > >counter-offensive to make sure that the voices of > >over 60% of Canadians rallying for a progressive > >coalition are heard! There are 10,000 of you on > >this listserv. So many, that this message may not > >reach some of you until after Harper's message. > >So - this message assumes he does not resign and let the coalition govern. > > > >We need everything you have to reach our goals > >for this week: winning the struggle in the media > >for the hearts and minds of Canadians uncertain > >about a coalition and showing the progressive > >parties that Canadians support them. In addition > >to usual - letters to the editor, call in radio, > >forwarding this message - we need you to: > > > >Sign up 5 Friends > > > >We are going to submit the petition on Friday and > >it needs to be absolutely massive. In order to > >increase our already impressive numbers on our > >petition, we are challenging everyone on the > >mailing list to get 5 of their friends to sign > >the petition. The petition is at: > >http://www.progressivecoalition.ca/ > > > >You can email them the direct link by clicking on > >the "share" button at > >progressivecoalition.ca/form.php, > >then clicking on "email". Alternatively, you > >could forward them this message! > > > >Join a rally, Bring a Petition! > > > >There are a variety of rallies happening on that > >day. They are listed on our facebook event page, > > 160>www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=55449301160, > >and on our website, > >progressivecoalition.ca > >(Under the "Show your Support" link), and others > >at > >makeparliamentwork.ca. > >These rallies are great time to collect > >additional signatures for our petition, which we > >are aiming to present to the Leaders of the Opposition on Friday. > > > >If you are attending any of the rallies posted, > >or any other events, please bring along a copy of > >the paper petition, which can be found at the > >following > >address: > >pr > ogressivecoalition.ca/petition.pdf > >Please get signatures only from those who have > >not already signed our online petition at > >progressivecoalition.ca. > >After you have collected the signatures, please > >add them to this > >spreadsheet: > > ls>progressivecoalition.ca/petitioninput.xls > >, and send the completed excel files to > >events@progressivecoalition.ca . > > > >Light a Candle for the Coalition! > > > >We want to spark a new spirit of cooperation in Parliament. > > > >On Wednesday night at 8PM, light a candle in > >front of a street-facing window and turn off the > >light in the room for 20 minutes. (Make sure to > >keep the candle away from anything that can catch fire!) > > > >On Thursday, at 5PM we are organizing Candles for > >a Coalition events across the country. We are > >going to take pictures and show Canadians from > >coast to coast support a coalition. If you can't > >attend a major event invite some of your friends > >over to light candles or do it yourself. Send us pictures! > > > > > >Bring your own candle! And spread the word! > > > >Rally locations: > > > >VICTORIA Candles for a Coalition ? Thursday Dec 4 > >5:00 PM, Location: Hillside and Douglas Street > > > >VANCOUVER Candles for a Coalition - Thursday Dec 4 > >5:15, in Front of the Trades and Convention Centre > >Will join the Make Parliment Work Rally afterwards > > > >GUELPH Candles for a Coalition ? Thursday Dec 4 > >7:00pm, St. George's Square > > > >GUELPH RALLY - Saturday, December 6th > >12:00pm St. George's Square > > > >Stratford, Ontario Candles for Canada - Thur Dec 4 > >5-7pm March to City Hall > >Meet Ontario St between Downie and Waterloo Streets > >Walk to city hall at 7pm > > > >GREAT VILLAGE, Nova Scotia > >Candles for Coalition in the Village! > >When: 6 pm, Thursday, December 4th > >Where: 33 Lornevale Road > > > >Cheers, > >Canadians for a Progressive Coalition > >No virus found in this incoming message. > >Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > >Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.9.13/1826 > >- Release Date: 12/3/2008 9:34 AM > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >Mai-not mailing list > >Mai-not@globalproblematique.net > >http://www.globalproblematique.net/mailman/listinfo/mai-not > > > >No virus found in this incoming message. > >Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > >Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: > 270.9.13/1827 - Release Date: 3/12/2551 17:41 > > > > >_______________________________________________ >Mai-not mailing list >Mai-not@globalproblematique.net >http://www.globalproblematique.net/mailman/listinfo/mai-not > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.9.13/1826 >- Release Date: 12/3/2008 9:34 AM From diongiles1 at aapt.net.au Wed Dec 3 21:59:26 2008 From: diongiles1 at aapt.net.au (Dion Giles) Date: Wed Dec 3 21:59:33 2008 Subject: [Mai-not] Canadians for a Progressive Coalition In-Reply-To: <200812040753090093.006EA34D@smtp-adsl.totonline.net> References: <200812040029.mB40ToY1029688@karma.reboot.ca> <200812040753090093.006EA34D@smtp-adsl.totonline.net> Message-ID: <20081204035927.239801129A@fep02.mfe.bur.connect.com.au> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.globalproblematique.net/pipermail/mai-not/attachments/20081204/61b74e8e/attachment.html From jfos at vic.australis.com.au Wed Dec 3 18:27:18 2008 From: jfos at vic.australis.com.au (john foster) Date: Thu Dec 4 01:01:42 2008 Subject: [Mai-not] Fwd: They don't deserve to be impeached. But it would be a good start. Message-ID: <004201c955de$229f84b0$38ad57ca@jfos> They don't deserve to be impeached. But it would be a good start. Go to the URL below & click on the words 'good start' found under Justice, 3 down in right-hand column http://winterpatriot.blogspot.com/2008/11/double-cover-1-nothing-can-ever-be-same.html ------------------------------------------------------ Provided by Australis http://www.australis.com.au/ ------------------------------------------------------ Provided by Australis http://www.australis.com.au/ From diongiles1 at aapt.net.au Thu Dec 4 04:50:13 2008 From: diongiles1 at aapt.net.au (Dion Giles) Date: Thu Dec 4 04:50:29 2008 Subject: [Mai-not] Fwd: They don't deserve to be impeached. But it would be a good start. In-Reply-To: <004201c955de$229f84b0$38ad57ca@jfos> References: <004201c955de$229f84b0$38ad57ca@jfos> Message-ID: <20081204105013.DE926F746@fep01.mfe.bur.connect.com.au> Can't see how Dennis Kucinich can list all those crimes and then say they don't deserve to be impeached. They do - and all the aiders and abetters in Congress who have been protecting them from justice. The main articles accompanying (Double Cover etc) confirm in spades that the 9/11 Truth movement is not just an exercise in history but is vitally important and will remain so until some deep throat blows the whistle in the face of growing disbelief in the lies. It is different from the murder of President Kennedy. He was murdered because he was getting in the way of the imperialist programme in Vietnam. Clinton, too, was dragging his feet and had to go, but two assassinations in the one half century would be too many for credibility so they set a honey trap for the fool instead, reducing him to lame duck status. The Twin Tower murders were different. There was no interest in getting rid of those 3000 people, just in sewing panic to clear the way for aggression and fascism. There had to be as Pearl Harbor and they turned one on. It is as dangerous to let 9/11 rest as it was to let the Reichstag fire rest. It remains a live issue as the programme it ushered in remains in place (if Obama gets in the way they'll do their damndest to kill him and blame the racist rednecks - his colour makes him more vulnerable). Dion Giles Western Australia At 09:27 04/12/2008, John Foster wrote: >They don't deserve to be impeached. But it would be a good start. > >Go to the URL below & click on the words 'good start' found under >Justice, 3 down in right-hand column > >http://winterpatriot.blogspot.com/2008/11/double-cover-1-nothing-can-ever-be-same.html > > > > > >------------------------------------------------------ >Provided by Australis >http://www.australis.com.au/ > > > > > > > >------------------------------------------------------ >Provided by Australis >http://www.australis.com.au/ > >_______________________________________________ >Mai-not mailing list >Mai-not@globalproblematique.net >http://www.globalproblematique.net/mailman/listinfo/mai-not From creuss at bluewin.ch Thu Dec 4 07:03:38 2008 From: creuss at bluewin.ch (Christoph Reuss) Date: Thu Dec 4 07:05:47 2008 Subject: [Mai-not] Canadians for a Progressive Coalition Message-ID: Dion Giles wrote: > with minority rights protected by constitutional > protections for the equal rights of individuals that constitute > the minority grouping (unlike California and probably unlike > Switzerland). ==^^^^ What do you mean exactly by "equal rights of individuals that constitute the minority grouping"? Of course the referenda in Switzerland are bound to respect the constitutional rights of minorities. And the hearings of minority groups to discuss the details of referenda before they are brought to vote, are designed to ensure that the results (either way) are acceptable for minorities. Chris ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ SpamWall: Mail to this addy is deleted unread unless it contains the keyword "igve". From creuss at bluewin.ch Thu Dec 4 07:08:02 2008 From: creuss at bluewin.ch (Christoph Reuss) Date: Thu Dec 4 07:10:08 2008 Subject: [Mai-not] Fwd: They don't deserve to be impeached. But it would be a good start. Message-ID: > if Obama gets in the way they'll do their damndest to kill him and blame > the racist rednecks With a cabinet like that, it's extremely unlikely that Obama will get in their way -- but if they need a race war, that won't save him either... Chris ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ SpamWall: Mail to this addy is deleted unread unless it contains the keyword "igve". From diongiles1 at aapt.net.au Thu Dec 4 07:37:02 2008 From: diongiles1 at aapt.net.au (Dion Giles) Date: Thu Dec 4 07:37:17 2008 Subject: [Mai-not] Canadians for a Progressive Coalition In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20081204133705.1E0D61102F@fep08.mfe.bur.connect.com.au> It's not always "of course" - there is uproar in California and some other States because referendum results have disadvantaged homosexuals, and enemies of democracy have been using this to claim that democracy is a Bad Thing (as if the sirs would be kinder to homosexual men and women!). Pleased to see this wouldn't be a problem in Switzerland. There are few enough democracies in the world. Dion Giles Western Australia At 22:03 04/12/2008, Chris Reuss wrote: >Dion Giles wrote: > > with minority rights protected by constitutional > > protections for the equal rights of individuals that constitute > > the minority grouping (unlike California and probably unlike > > Switzerland). ==^^^^ > >What do you mean exactly by "equal rights of individuals that constitute >the minority grouping"? Of course the referenda in Switzerland are bound >to respect the constitutional rights of minorities. And the hearings of >minority groups to discuss the details of referenda before they are brought >to vote, are designed to ensure that the results (either way) are >acceptable for minorities. > >Chris > > > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >SpamWall: Mail to this addy is deleted unread unless it contains the keyword >"igve". > > >_______________________________________________ >Mai-not mailing list >Mai-not@globalproblematique.net >http://www.globalproblematique.net/mailman/listinfo/mai-not From diongiles1 at aapt.net.au Thu Dec 4 07:38:30 2008 From: diongiles1 at aapt.net.au (Dion Giles) Date: Thu Dec 4 07:39:16 2008 Subject: [alldems] Re: [Mai-not] Canadians for a Progressive Coalition In-Reply-To: <20081204035927.239801129A@fep02.mfe.bur.connect.com.au> References: <200812040029.mB40ToY1029688@karma.reboot.ca> <200812040753090093.006EA34D@smtp-adsl.totonline.net> <20081204035927.239801129A@fep02.mfe.bur.connect.com.au> Message-ID: <20081204133831.3186410E18@fep04.mfe.bur.connect.com.au> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.globalproblematique.net/pipermail/mai-not/attachments/20081204/164c590d/attachment.html From thinker at thelakebc.ca Thu Dec 4 09:09:27 2008 From: thinker at thelakebc.ca (Ed Deak) Date: Thu Dec 4 09:06:15 2008 Subject: [Mai-not] Canadians for a Progressive Coalition In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200812041506.mB4F645G023244@karma.reboot.ca> It is about time you guys join the EU and become civilized in a true democracy. Listening to people ? Who's ever heard of such disgusting form of plebeian dictatorship? Cheers, Ed. At 05:03 AM 04/12/2008, you wrote: >Dion Giles wrote: > > with minority rights protected by constitutional > > protections for the equal rights of individuals that constitute > > the minority grouping (unlike California and probably unlike > > Switzerland). ==^^^^ > >What do you mean exactly by "equal rights of individuals that constitute >the minority grouping"? Of course the referenda in Switzerland are bound >to respect the constitutional rights of minorities. And the hearings of >minority groups to discuss the details of referenda before they are brought >to vote, are designed to ensure that the results (either way) are >acceptable for minorities. > >Chris > > > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >SpamWall: Mail to this addy is deleted unread unless it contains the keyword >"igve". > > >_______________________________________________ >Mai-not mailing list >Mai-not@globalproblematique.net >http://www.globalproblematique.net/mailman/listinfo/mai-not > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.9.13/1826 - Release Date: >12/3/2008 9:34 AM From papadop at peak.org Thu Dec 4 10:37:30 2008 From: papadop at peak.org (MichaelP) Date: Thu Dec 4 11:26:31 2008 Subject: [Mai-not] De Menezes family storm out of inquest Message-ID: http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23597294-details/article.do?ito=newsnow& 04.12.08 Related Articles * Menezes: ban on unlawful killing verdict Relatives of Jean Charles de Menezes walked out of the inquest into his death today in protest over the coroner's decision that the jury cannot return a verdict of unlawful killing. Four cousins of Mr de Menezes stood up during coroner Sir Michael Wright's summing-up of the seven-week inquest and opened their jackets to reveal T-shirts printed with the slogans "unlawful killing verdict" on the back and "your legal right to decide" on the front. Patricia da Silva Armani, Vivian Figueiredo, Alessandro Pereira and Erion Aldo da Silva then walked up to the jury and stood in silence before exiting. The coroner, his barrister and legal teams for the Metropolitan Police looked on aghast before security officials tried to stop the protest. The walkout was met with cheers by members of campaign group, Justice4Jean, standing outside. The action at the Oval cricket ground follows the coroner's decision, which leaves the jury with a choice between lawful killing or an open verdict. Earlier, the coroner had told the court that the legal team representing Mr de Menezes's family, Michael Mansfield and Henrietta Hill, would not be present for the remainder of the case. The former High Court judge added: "The evidence and legal submissions are of course now over." Mr de Menezes, 27, was shot by firearms officers at point-blank range after being mistaken for failed suicide bomber, Hussain Osman, at Stockwell Tube station on 22 July, 2005. The jurors will decide whether a string of factors - including photographs, communications and orders issued from the control room at New Scotland Yard - caused or contributed to his death. The inquest heard from 100 witnesses, including the two men who shot dead Mr de Menezes. The jury began its deliberations today. From duanebehrens at cox.net Fri Dec 5 00:24:35 2008 From: duanebehrens at cox.net (Duane Behrens) Date: Fri Dec 5 00:25:10 2008 Subject: [Mai-not] Elephant in the Living Room Message-ID: <20081205012435.7IY64.654420.imail@fed1rmwml30> Elephant in the Living Room Democrats talk about closing the gap between the richest and poorest in our nation. The best of them suggest this will be done by resurrecting progressive taxation, perhaps assessing a sales tax on transfers of stocks and bonds. Worthwhile goals. But Democrats dare not question the NIST?s assertion that on September 11, 2001, all forty-seven, one-inch-thick, three-foot-wide inner columns on the 79th floor of World Trade Center Building 2 failed at exactly the same instant in time. We dare not question their claim that in WTC 1, this phenomenon repeated itself in the same precise sequence and in a perfectly vertical trajectory through 78 stories of similarly-robust, undamaged steel and concrete below . . . even though only one corner of that building was hit. Democrats can talk about the downward pressure on American wages resulting from the tax-subsidized transfer of American factories to slave-labor markets overseas. But we dasn?t observe that only buildings owned by Larry Silverstein fell on 9/11. We dare not observe that all of his buildings ?collapsed? vertically, thereby reducing damage to surrounding property . . . or that he collected $3.5 billion in an insurance payout on a policy he?d negotiated only weeks before the attacks. Democrats can talk about the usefulness of the line-item veto as a means of curbing pork-barrel spending. But we dasn?t ask why no plane wreckage was ever found in that small scorched hole in Shanksville, Pennsylvania, where we?re told that Flight 93 crashed on 9/11, or how Flight 77, a 130-ton aircraft, could first punch neat holes through three walls of a military fortress and then leave less than a ton of wreckage behind - none of which appeared in photographs until the following day. Democrats can talk about the merits of various campaign-finance reform bills. But we dasn?t ask to know more about Marvin Bush?s connections to Stratasec, the company in charge of security at the World Trade Center buildings. We?re not to ask why that company temporarily cut power and video to successive banks of floors in all three buildings in the weeks before the attacks. And we?re not allowed to wonder why live-feed video cameras mounted on the tops of all three towers were inexplicably disabled on the morning of 9/11, or why the FBI seized all video recording equipment from surrounding buildings and businesses within minutes of the attacks. Democrats can lobby and write letters in support of a national health-care program. But we dasn?t ask why the fall of three buildings on 9/11 defied the same laws of physics that were used in their design . . . or how the top twenty floors of both WTCs 1 and 2 could somehow manage to plow through 70-odd floors of pristine and undamaged steel beams, welded-and-bolted connectors and reinforced concrete below without encountering any resistance whatsoever . . . or why WTC2 came down first . . . or why WTC7 came down at all. Democrats are free to discuss whether or not Guantanamo detainees should be treated as sub-humans. We can talk about the constitutionality of executive orders. We can even talk about Cheney?s secret energy task force meeting in 2001. But we dasn?t wonder how a ?collapse? could turn concrete into a fine dust, impel steel beams upward and outward for hundreds of feet, cause more than a thousand human beings to disappear without a trace, and require that a thousand more victims would be identified only through the DNA testing of bone chips . . . some of which were found on roofs . . . across the street. Yessir. This is America - a free country. And apart from the events of 9/11, we?re free to discuss almost anything we want. Trouble is, 9/11 has become the elephant in our living room. And as we sit here quietly, making polite conversation and stirring sugar into our tea, that elephant is slowly pivoting around the room, defecating on each lap in turn. How he got in here I can?t say. Getting him out is going to be a real problem. But perhaps we should do something soon. The floor is weakening, the stench is overpowering . . . . . . and this elephant eats a LOT. Duane Behrens From siamdave at yahoo.ca Fri Dec 5 01:35:49 2008 From: siamdave at yahoo.ca (Dave Patterson) Date: Fri Dec 5 01:35:58 2008 Subject: [Mai-not] Canada's constitutional coup: A warning to the working class In-Reply-To: <20081205012435.7IY64.654420.imail@fed1rmwml30> References: <20081205012435.7IY64.654420.imail@fed1rmwml30> Message-ID: <200812051435490484.0190649C@smtp-adsl.totonline.net> Something you're unlikely to read in the Canadian MSM (or any other MSM for that matter, by definition, really) - Canada's constitutional coup: A warning to the working class 5 December 2008 http://www1.wsws.org/articles/2008/dec2008/pers-d05.shtml In a flagrant attack on parliamentary norms and democratic rights, Canada's minority Conservative government, in conjunction with the unelected governor-general, has shut down the country's national parliament in order to prevent the opposition parties from ousting the government in a non-confidence vote scheduled for Monday. Never before in Canada or, for that matter, any other country that follows the British parliamentary pattern, has a government prorogued parliament for the purpose of avoiding a non-confidence vote. Two further facts underline the arbitrary and undemocratic character of Governor-General Michae"lle Jean's decision to grant Prime Minster Stephen Harper his request that parliament be suspended until January 26: * In an election less than eight weeks ago, Canadians once again denied the Conservatives a parliamentary majority, giving the three opposition parties 163 of the 308 House of Commons seats and well over half their votes. * To demonstrate that the Conservatives had lost parliament's "confidence," and in accordance with long-established constitutional practice, the three opposition parties had officially informed the governor-general earlier this week that they were committed to defeating the government at the earliest opportunity and supporting an opposition coalition government for at least 18 months. The World Socialist Web Site has made clear its political opposition to a Liberal-New Democratic Party (NDP) coalition government supported by the Bloc Que'be'cois. (See: "Canada's 'putsch': Oppose Conservative power-grab! No support to Liberal-NDP coalition!") But the suspension of parliament and of the MPs' right to defeat and replace the sitting government strikes at the most fundamental democratic right---the right of the people to choose their own government. Turning reality on its head, the Conservatives, with the support of much of the media, have mounted a vitriolic and reactionary campaign, terming the opposition's attempt to bring to power an alternate government "illegal" and branding it an illegitimate attempt to overturn the results of the October 14 election. They have labeled the proposed Liberal-NDP government a "separatist coalition," because the pro-Quebec independence Bloc Que'be'cois, which has previously provided the Conservatives with their margin of victory in confidence votes, is backing it. "That is as close to treason and sedition as I can imagine," declared Conservative MP Bob Dechert. Even sections of the corporate media that favor the suspension of parliament concede that Harper and the Conservatives have openly incited anti-Quebec chauvinism. In a nationally televised address Wednesday, Harper vowed to "use every legal means" at his disposal to remain in power. Given that he has declared the opposition's attempt to form an alternate government a threat to Canada's "national unity" and "democracy," and has now shut down parliament, this vow raises the question as to how far he and his fellow Conservatives are prepared to go in subverting parliamentary and democratic procedures. While the Conservatives have brazenly asserted the right to govern without parliamentary sanction, the linchpin of their constitutional coup is the governor-general, the representative of Canada's queen, the British monarch Elizabeth II. A feudal relic, this archaic office, supposedly above the political fray, has---although this is not popularly known---virtually unlimited powers. These "reserve" powers are almost always held in abeyance, but the ruling elite has retained the office of the governor-general precisely in order to use it to short-circuit parliamentary democracy in a period of acute crisis. Yesterday, Jean ordered parliament shut down to ensure the survival of a right-wing government under conditions of mounting economic crisis. In Australia in 1975, Governor General John Kerr replaced the Labor government of Gough Whitlam with the right-winger Malcolm Fraser when the Australian ruling class lost confidence in Labor's ability to suppress a rising tide of working class struggles. In keeping with the reactionary traditions and function of her office, Jean will provide no explanation for yesterday's decision to shut down parliament. Legally, she is accountable to no one. This does not mean that yesterday's decision was her own. Canada's corporate elite had made it abundantly clear, through the editorial pages of its newspapers, that it preferred to see democratic principles throttled rather than see the government replaced by a Liberal-NDP coalition. This coalition, one must add, is anything but radical. In striking their alliance with the Liberals, who represent Canada's traditional party of government, the social-democratic NDP pledged to uphold "fiscal responsibility" and support Canada's leading role in the Afghanistan war, and shelved their call for the repeal of a five-year $50 billion program of corporate tax cuts. The class character of the coalition---its subservience to big business---is underscored by its tepid reaction to yesterday's constitutional coup. None of the three opposition leaders dared question, let alone challenge, the office of the governor-general or her decision. Ten minutes into his press conference, NDP leader Jack Layton lamented that it was a "sad day for parliamentary democracy," then meekly moved on. Fissures have already appeared in the Liberal leadership over whether the party, in the "national interest," should not rally behind the Conservative government. The political-constitutional crisis that suddenly erupted in Canada, following the government's presentation on November 27 of a fiscal and economic update, has its roots in deep conflicts within the Canadian bourgeoisie over how to respond to the world recession. The Conservatives, representing the most rapacious sections of capital, including Alberta's oil industry, have spurned calls for an economic stimulus package. The crisis is also a product of the erosion of the popular base of support for the ruling class's principal parties. This is the result of their relentless pursuit over more than a quarter-century of policies aimed at increasing the wealth of the corporate and financial elite by dismantling public services, gutting union rights and slashing the taxes of big business and the rich. In the 1993 election, the Progressive Conservative Party, the Canadian elite's traditional alternate party of government, exploded. The "new" Conservative Party, headed by the neo-conservative ideologue Stephen Harper, is the result of a fusion between the right-wing populist Reform/Canadian Alliance and remnants of the Progressive Conservatives. In the October 14 election, the Liberals won 26.2 percent of the vote, their lowest total ever. The traditional bourgeois-democratic framework is breaking-down. This is due, on the one hand, to the intensity of disputes within the ruling class over how Canadian capitalism can retain its world position under conditions of mounting global trade and geo-political rivalries, and, on the other, to its inability to develop a large, stable base of popular support for its program of social reaction and militarism and its fear of an eruption of the class struggle. This week's events in the "peaceable kingdom" must serve as a warning to workers all over the world. The bourgeoisie is more and more running roughshod over basic democratic norms and principles and turning toward authoritarian forms of rule. This has been seen clearly in United States. The right-wing campaign to impeach Bill Clinton on trumped-up charges was followed by the stolen election of 2000, and then an explosion of militarism and sweeping attacks on democratic rights under the Bush administration. Tens of millions voted last month for Democrat Barack Obama in the hope of putting an end to war and economic policies that have enriched a plutocracy while condemning the vast majority to economic insecurity and declining living standards. But Obama has moved quickly to reassure the US elite that when it comes to economic policy as well as the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan there will be "a seamless transition," i.e., a continuation of the same basic course. Now in Canada, as in the US, events have revealed that there is no constituency within the political and media establishment committed to the defense of constitutional principles and democratic rights. The struggle to defend democratic rights is inseparable from a struggle against imperialist war and for the economic interests of working people. It depends upon the independent political mobilization of the working class in opposition to all of the official parties and the capitalist system which they defend. From creuss at bluewin.ch Fri Dec 5 05:01:35 2008 From: creuss at bluewin.ch (Christoph Reuss) Date: Fri Dec 5 05:03:54 2008 Subject: [Mai-not] Elephant in the Living Room Message-ID: > But Democrats dare not question the NIST's assertion that on September > 11, 2001, all forty-seven, one-inch-thick, three-foot-wide inner columns > on the 79th floor of World Trade Center Building 2 failed at > exactly the same instant in time. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Did NIST assert this? The "pan-cake" theory asserts that the columns didn't fail at all (as shown in the model visualization), just the floors fell down onto each other from top to bottom. The later "total collapse" theory asserts that for some magical melting process, the columns melted down from top to bottom at free-fall speed... Anyway, we should point out the truth (which can be seen on all 9/11 WTC videos for anyone who has eyes) that the columns did NOT "fail at exactly the same instant in time", but their demolition was __cascaded from top to bottom during the 10 seconds__ of free-fall speed, in order to make it look like a collapse from the fuel fire above. A masterpiece of cutting-edge controlled demolition by top professionals. Chris ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ SpamWall: Mail to this addy is deleted unread unless it contains the keyword "igve". From duanebehrens at cox.net Fri Dec 5 08:39:53 2008 From: duanebehrens at cox.net (Duane Behrens) Date: Fri Dec 5 08:40:51 2008 Subject: [Mai-not] 9/11 - Rules of Engagement In-Reply-To: <20081205082649.VA639.656035.imail@fed1rmwml30> Message-ID: <20081205093953.G60TL.656849.imail@fed1rmwml30> CHRIS: Anyway, we should point out the truth (which can be seen on all 9/11 WTC videos for anyone who has eyes) that the columns did NOT "fail at exactly the same instant in time", but their demolition was __cascaded from top to bottom during the 10 seconds__ of free-fall speed, in order to make it look like a collapse from the fuel fire above. A masterpiece of cutting-edge, controlled demolition by top professionals. DUANE: Yeah? Where's your proof? :-) Reading your post, I began to think of the standard rules of engagement employed by supporters of the Official Conspiracy Theory (OCT), both here and elsewhere. See if you've encountered any of the following: 1. Avoid the Science. First and foremost, one must never, ever engage in any serious discussion of the physics of the WTC "collapses." Further, one must never admit that the government changed their explanation of the event three times (first "melting steel", then "pancaking", then "global collapse.") In other words, there must never be an admission that reinforced steel buildings cannot, without the help of explosives, physically fail at free fall speed, with zero resistance from an undamaged structure below. 2. Demand "proof" that the buildings DIDN'T fail as the Bush handlers tell us. This one always makes me laugh. First remove all the evidence and then suggest that skeptics have no case - because they have no evidence! 3. Deflect from an inability to argue the science by insulting your opponent immediately and continually on all fronts, whether related to 9/11 or not. I.E., "Destroy the Messenger." "Crackpot," "Conspiracy Theorist," "flat crazy", "asshole", "True Believer". We've been called those and many more, on this and other lists. 4. Accuse the skeptic of being an "anti-Semite." One poster on another list stated (paraphrased), "you can't deny there is a wide body of anti-Semites involved in the 9/11 truth movement," when I've personally seen nothing of the kind. (Certainly the lessee of the WTC complex was and is an active pro Zionist, something that is as readily documented as the fact that Americans were tricked into a war with Israel's nearest enemy immediately after the event.) OCT supporters will claim that even mentioning these facts amounts to bigotry and racism. (Read "Beyond Chutzpah" by Norman Finkelstein) In short, cast the skeptic as an anti-Semite in an attempt via association to destroy his/her credibility. 5. Attempt to isolate the skeptic as a lone individual. Example: A petition is signed by thousands, and presented to congressional members, rejecting the OCT as baseless and demanding an indendent investigation into the events of 9/11. Faced with this, an OCT supporter is likely to respond with a form of, "I understand that in your own mind, you believe your own crazy ideas." 6. Related to the above item, try hard to cast all doubt as a "conspiracy theory." Every demand for proof, every demand for an investigation and arrest is thus, somehow, thrown back as a "crazy alternative theory." Did I miss any? Oh, yeah. The fact that this topic - this event which has been used as central justification for an increasing police state - the myriad of anomalies associated with 9/11 have been dutifully and absolutely ignored by the national media. Once I began to study this topic with my own eyes, it was that singular realization that made me feel as if the nation and the world I'd studied as a child had been turned upside down. Duane Behrens From siamdave at yahoo.ca Fri Dec 5 11:11:52 2008 From: siamdave at yahoo.ca (Dave Patterson) Date: Fri Dec 5 11:12:00 2008 Subject: [Mai-not] 9/11 - Rules of Engagement In-Reply-To: <20081205093953.G60TL.656849.imail@fed1rmwml30> References: <20081205093953.G60TL.656849.imail@fed1rmwml30> Message-ID: <200812060011520093.039FC6CD@smtp-adsl.totonline.net> I think you missed the 'my expert is bigger than your expert' gambit, closely aligned with the very elitist 'Has your expert been published in a peer-reviewed journal?' ploy. It's kind of like derivatives, the further you can get away from engaging with actual facts, the more BS you can spread around the unwary/plain ignorant. And these guys KNOW that actual facts are toxic to them. And there is also the Secret Troll Strategem - their Secret Rule 1 says that they NEVER admit anything, their only purpose is to frustrate and impede anyone who is not sure what is happening but is looking for some answers, when hard questions are asked, they just run off somewhere else - kind of like whackamoles - bash em in one place, they just pop up somewhere else with some other idiotic argument. Like anything, they're amusing if YOU control THEM - good for a bit of target practice sometimes, but never make the mistake of getting involved. *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 08-12-05 at 6:39 AM Duane Behrens wrote: >CHRIS: >Anyway, we should point out the truth (which can be seen on all 9/11 >WTC videos for anyone who has eyes) that the columns did NOT "fail at >exactly the same instant in time", but their demolition was __cascaded >from top to bottom during the 10 seconds__ of free-fall speed, >in order to make it look like a collapse from the fuel fire above. A >masterpiece of cutting-edge, controlled demolition by top professionals. > >DUANE: >Yeah? Where's your proof? :-) > >Reading your post, I began to think of the standard rules of engagement >employed by supporters of the Official Conspiracy Theory (OCT), both here >and elsewhere. See if you've encountered any of the following: > >1. Avoid the Science. First and foremost, one must never, ever engage in >any serious discussion of the physics of the WTC "collapses." Further, >one must never admit that the government changed their explanation of the >event three times (first "melting steel", then "pancaking", then "global >collapse.") In other words, there must never be an admission that >reinforced steel buildings cannot, without the help of explosives, >physically fail at free fall speed, with zero resistance from an undamaged >structure below. > >2. Demand "proof" that the buildings DIDN'T fail as the Bush handlers >tell us. This one always makes me laugh. First remove all the evidence >and then suggest that skeptics have no case - because they have no >evidence! > >3. Deflect from an inability to argue the science by insulting your >opponent immediately and continually on all fronts, whether related to >9/11 or not. I.E., "Destroy the Messenger." > >"Crackpot," "Conspiracy Theorist," "flat crazy", "asshole", "True >Believer". We've been called those and many more, on this and other >lists. > >4. Accuse the skeptic of being an "anti-Semite." One poster on another >list stated (paraphrased), "you can't deny there is a wide body of >anti-Semites involved in the 9/11 truth movement," when I've personally >seen nothing of the kind. (Certainly the lessee of the WTC complex was >and is an active pro Zionist, something that is as readily documented as >the fact that Americans were tricked into a war with Israel's nearest >enemy immediately after the event.) OCT supporters will claim that even >mentioning these facts amounts to bigotry and racism. (Read "Beyond >Chutzpah" by Norman Finkelstein) In short, cast the skeptic as an >anti-Semite in an attempt via association to destroy his/her credibility. > >5. Attempt to isolate the skeptic as a lone individual. Example: A >petition is signed by thousands, and presented to congressional members, >rejecting the OCT as baseless and demanding an indendent investigation >into the events of 9/11. Faced with this, an OCT supporter is likely to >respond with a form of, "I understand that in your own mind, you believe >your own crazy ideas." > >6. Related to the above item, try hard to cast all doubt as a "conspiracy >theory." Every demand for proof, every demand for an investigation and >arrest is thus, somehow, thrown back as a "crazy alternative theory." > >Did I miss any? Oh, yeah. The fact that this topic - this event which >has been used as central justification for an increasing police state - >the myriad of anomalies associated with 9/11 have been dutifully and >absolutely ignored by the national media. Once I began to study this >topic with my own eyes, it was that singular realization that made me feel >as if the nation and the world I'd studied as a child had been turned >upside down. > >Duane Behrens >_______________________________________________ >Mai-not mailing list >Mai-not@globalproblematique.net >http://www.globalproblematique.net/mailman/listinfo/mai-not > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.9.14/1831 - Release Date: 4/12/2551 21:55 From creuss at bluewin.ch Fri Dec 5 12:20:16 2008 From: creuss at bluewin.ch (Christoph Reuss) Date: Fri Dec 5 12:22:24 2008 Subject: [Mai-not] 9/11 - Rules of Engagement Message-ID: > Yeah? Where's your proof? :-) On every video of the WTC collapse. You can see the point of ignition (where the massive structure turns into dust and falls downwards) moving linearly from top (point of airplane impact) to bottom. IF all floors would have "failed at exactly the same instant in time", then this point of ignition would have been at all levels simultaneously, making all levels fall down at the same time. (In _regular_ controlled demolitions, the point of ignition is at the bottom of the building, staying there as the upper levels fall to the bottom. That's why the WTC demolition doesn't "look like" a demolition, but the principle is the same, just the order of ignition was changed from bottom-up to top-down! Except for WTC7, where the regular bottom-up order was used.) Chris ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ SpamWall: Mail to this addy is deleted unread unless it contains the keyword "igve". From duanebehrens at cox.net Fri Dec 5 14:04:58 2008 From: duanebehrens at cox.net (Duane Behrens) Date: Fri Dec 5 14:05:04 2008 Subject: [Mai-not] 9/11 - Collapse Sequence In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20081205150458.RSTTM.663586.imail@fed1rmwml30> CHRIS: IF all floors would have "failed at exactly the same instant in time", then this point of ignition would have been at all levels simultaneously, making all levels fall down at the same time. DUANE: Actually, Chris, my point was that ON EACH INDIVIDUAL FLOOR, all primary connectors failed within the same .04 to .06 of a second approximately. That fraction is found by dividing the app. number of stories by the number of vertical feet that came down. And that .04 to .06 second elapsed failure time FOR EACH INDIVIDUAL FLOOR repeated itself in precise sequence through at least 78 undamaged floors on both WTC1 and 2. Sorry if I wasn't clear. From creuss at bluewin.ch Fri Dec 5 14:19:47 2008 From: creuss at bluewin.ch (Christoph Reuss) Date: Fri Dec 5 14:21:53 2008 Subject: [Mai-not] 9/11 - Collapse Sequence Message-ID: > Actually, Chris, my point was that ON EACH INDIVIDUAL FLOOR, all primary Ah, okay. Chris ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ SpamWall: Mail to this addy is deleted unread unless it contains the keyword "igve". From creuss at bluewin.ch Fri Dec 5 14:28:06 2008 From: creuss at bluewin.ch (Christoph Reuss) Date: Fri Dec 5 14:30:12 2008 Subject: [Mai-not] Elephant in the Living Room Message-ID: While we're at it: Someone suggested that it wasn't possible to _wire_ all those charges of explosives throughout the buildings, without inhabitants noticing the wires (as used in usual demolitions). I guess they used wireless ignition? (a Mossad specialty from the guys who invented the cell phone) Chris ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ SpamWall: Mail to this addy is deleted unread unless it contains the keyword "igve". From gdy52150 at spiritone.com Fri Dec 5 19:13:44 2008 From: gdy52150 at spiritone.com (gdy52150) Date: Fri Dec 5 18:49:46 2008 Subject: [Mai-not] 9/11 - Rules of Engagement In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4939D1C8.3000504@spiritone.com> ummm I've seen photos of smoke and debris rising from the ground level in the Ne corner before the towers collasped. A janitor also has stated emphatically that he was in a sub basement level and the first explosiion was beneath him the fireball from that explosion rose upward through the freight elevator injuring his coworker. Besides all that I'm 58 years old and have seen all kinds of buildings damaged by fire, wind, tornados and what have you not one of them landed in a neat pile all of them were scattered all over hell. The government's official version is a pile of bullshit. Christoph Reuss wrote: >>Yeah? Where's your proof? :-) >> >> > >On every video of the WTC collapse. You can see the point of ignition >(where the massive structure turns into dust and falls downwards) >moving linearly from top (point of airplane impact) to bottom. > >IF all floors would have "failed at exactly the same instant in time", >then this point of ignition would have been at all levels simultaneously, >making all levels fall down at the same time. > >(In _regular_ controlled demolitions, the point of ignition is at the >bottom of the building, staying there as the upper levels fall to the bottom. >That's why the WTC demolition doesn't "look like" a demolition, but the >principle is the same, just the order of ignition was changed from >bottom-up to top-down! Except for WTC7, where the regular bottom-up >order was used.) > >Chris > > > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >SpamWall: Mail to this addy is deleted unread unless it contains the keyword >"igve". > > >_______________________________________________ >Mai-not mailing list >Mai-not@globalproblematique.net >http://www.globalproblematique.net/mailman/listinfo/mai-not > > > From diongiles1 at aapt.net.au Fri Dec 5 20:00:53 2008 From: diongiles1 at aapt.net.au (Dion Giles) Date: Fri Dec 5 20:01:04 2008 Subject: [Mai-not] 9/11 - Rules of Engagement In-Reply-To: <4939D1C8.3000504@spiritone.com> References: <4939D1C8.3000504@spiritone.com> Message-ID: <20081206020058.21E2E10FF0@fep08.mfe.bur.connect.com.au> I agree that the science sets the parameters within which assessment of the cause of the Twin Towers murders and the destruction of the Pentagon took place, and it is helpful that a difference on this list over aspects of the scientific evidence appears to have converged in the light of discussion.. However, alone it is not enough to make a case that would persuade the rest of the jury of public opinion, a jury which is bamboozled by conflicting experts (remembering the political power of the Wittgensteinian reliance on predominating weight of expert opinion to establish what is taken to be truth - measuring scientific opinions by number and individual "weight" within the elitist "scientific community"). Australia's reputation among jurists was trashed in 1982 by the misuse of "expert" forensic evidence allowing a jury of Northern Territory rednecks to find a mother guilty of murder because they didn't bother to analyse the forensic evidence they were fed. The Territorian jurors accepted that a sound-deadening spray common to all cars of that make was "foetal blood". How would Southern rednecks respond to scientific evidence about the Twin Towers collapse, especially ion the face of the top sirs? Scientific arguments help arrive at the truth (or, strictly, falsehood of the story that the towers were brought down by Arabs in airliners without "inside" assistance at the top level in the USA), but they won't demonstrate it to the millions who would take a hell of a lot of persuading that their leaders would do anything so vile. Motive, method, opportunity, complicity and suppression of evidence all play a part along with science in building a case that it was an inside or inside-assisted job. This includes the failure of the news media to seek evidence - not seek evidence inculpating this or that agency, merely seek evidence that would throw light one way or the other. Ten thousand were thought to have been killed, and it shrank to three thousand. Where were the others? How many escaped during the collapse? How many were not at work at the time? If the absentees markedly differed in number or demography from the norm for that time on a Tuesday morning, who were they? Howls of "anti-Semitism" themselves play a part in building the picture. What do those alleging anti-Semitism know about who was complicit that inspires them to fear thorough disclosure and analysis of evidence? Could it be "methinks the villain doth protest too much"? What were those Israeli spies doing on a nearby building gleefully cheering the atrocity on? A footnote - I do not feel sure that George W Bush was in on it. He looked poleaxed when the news was brought to him, and reacted in a very strange way. Stalin, when learning that his Nazi allies had attacked his country, froze for days. One has to wonder if Bush could be entrusted in advance with such knowledge. Cheney and Rumsfeld etc yes, Bush - well, maybe. Dion Giles Western Australia From creuss at bluewin.ch Sat Dec 6 07:29:52 2008 From: creuss at bluewin.ch (Christoph Reuss) Date: Sat Dec 6 07:32:04 2008 Subject: [Mai-not] Chomsky and 9/11: the background Message-ID: Articles on Chomsky's 80th birthday have emphasized his interpretation of 9/11: That 9/11 was a legitimate revenge by Arabs against "U$ Imperialism"! Obviously, this view is totally incompatible with the idea that 9/11 was the act of zionist billionaires. This also reveals that Chomsky's reply (that the WTC question is not important) was actually dishonesty, not just ignorance. Chomsky's version is a most hypocritical way of blaming Arabs while playing their advocate! This perfectly fits the gatekeeper. It is the old tactics of playing out groups against each other (in this case "Arabs vs. the West") while the real perps are laughing all the way to the bank and go unpunished, perpetuating their criminal success. But this time, this tactics comes cloaked in hypocrisy of "anti-imperialism". This way, they control both sides of the debate (empire and "dissidents") so they can ensure what is being left OUT of the debate (the 9/11 truth). A so-called "dissident" who EXACTLY PARROTS the official line of "Arabs against the West" -- like in Dubya WoT speeches, PNAC strategy plots, typical neo-con pamphlets (e.g. Huntington's "Clash of Civilizations"), and faked in "Osama videos/audiotapes" made in Hollywood studios --, is worse than useless: He's counter-productive and only useful to sabotage genuine dissent. Also in his effects (perpetuating the imperialist WoT based on the 9/11 hoax, thus abolishing civil liberties). Like his idol Marx. Gee, what a coincidence! "Chomsky -- the best 'dissident' that NYT money can buy!" Chris ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ SpamWall: Mail to this addy is deleted unread unless it contains the keyword "igve". From creuss at bluewin.ch Sat Dec 6 07:44:08 2008 From: creuss at bluewin.ch (Christoph Reuss) Date: Sat Dec 6 07:46:32 2008 Subject: [Mai-not] 9/11 - Rules of Engagement Message-ID: Glen wrote: > ummm I've seen photos of smoke and debris rising from the ground level > in the Ne corner before the towers collasped. A janitor also has stated > emphatically that he was in a sub basement level and the first > explosiion was beneath him the fireball from that explosion rose upward > through the freight elevator injuring his coworker. The few (about 3) explosions in the basement only weakened the structure but didn't make it collapse -- otherwise, the whole tower would have fallen down in one piece. No, it was pulverized from top to bottom, floor by floor in a linear top-down sequence. --- Dion wrote: > Ten thousand were thought to have been killed, and it shrank > to three thousand. The first 9/11 front page headline of the largest Swiss tabloid (owned by zionist Ringier) shouted something like: "50,000 dead in NYC"! Chris ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ SpamWall: Mail to this addy is deleted unread unless it contains the keyword "igve". From jomut at yahoo.com Sat Dec 6 10:05:43 2008 From: jomut at yahoo.com (John Mutambirwa) Date: Sat Dec 6 10:05:47 2008 Subject: [Mai-not] sieg...! Message-ID: <259999.68356.qm@web31107.mail.mud.yahoo.com> John Mutambirwa (Dreaming Awake) jomut@yahoo.com chakane@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/jomut ? Hi ? Heh! Heh! Heh! ? Couldn't control the mirth when I saw The Harper Dictatorship folks!! ? John ====================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.globalproblematique.net/pipermail/mai-not/attachments/20081206/22d83677/attachment.html From McPogo at aol.com Fri Dec 5 18:20:39 2008 From: McPogo at aol.com (McPogo@aol.com) Date: Sat Dec 6 20:26:13 2008 Subject: [Mai-not] 66,000 Ontario Manufacturing jobs LOST in NOVEMBER! Message-ID: Mr. Prime Minister & your wagging tail - Guy Giorno, 66,000 Ontario Manufacturing jobs LOST in NOVEMBER! The worst losses in 26 years! More than 3 x the "experts" predictions! While you are playing your psychotic power games with the Opposition, WHO is going to help out with the economic disaster occurring in Ontario and the rest of Canada? We have NO GOVERNMENT for 2 months thanks to your cowardly actions! The USA has already tied their financial support packages ($34 B) for the Big Three to help them in the USA ONLY! Not to be spent outside of the USA! If the Big Three decide to pull their auto manufacturing out of Canada to get their 34 Billion Dollar aid package in the US, who is left to go to bat for Canadian jobs and industry? Answer NOBODY!!! Certainly not you and your precious Conservatives. You guys are worse than a bunch of spoiled brats taking their ball home for 7 weeks cause your scared of the game. You started it with your ridiculous throne speech! You have abandoned your sworn duties to Canada with your stupid stunt - during the worst economic crisis in Canadian history! A Coalition of intelligent people - not just bullies and butt-kissing MPs' will have to finally take over and do the right things to aid Canadians during this Depression - yes Depression - political fake-speech calling it a recession is bull-crap. It is just too bad we have to suffer 7 more weeks of economic mayhem with no government help while you guys twiddle-diddle around your Christmas Trees! Can't wait for January 26, 2009! Paul McLean 1303 Third Avenue East Owen Sound, Ontario N4K 2L8 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.globalproblematique.net/pipermail/mai-not/attachments/20081205/98b6d7fb/attachment.html From oscarptyltd at ozemail.com.au Sun Dec 7 16:50:50 2008 From: oscarptyltd at ozemail.com.au (Clem Clarke) Date: Sun Dec 7 16:51:12 2008 Subject: [Mai-not] The Financial Crash - The Real Reason Why, and a New Monetary System Needed Part 2 Message-ID: <493C534A.8030400@ozemail.com.au> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.globalproblematique.net/pipermail/mai-not/attachments/20081208/277b5207/attachment.html From oscarptyltd at ozemail.com.au Sun Dec 7 16:52:07 2008 From: oscarptyltd at ozemail.com.au (Clem Clarke) Date: Sun Dec 7 16:52:44 2008 Subject: [Mai-not] The Financial Crash - The Real Reason Why, and a New Monetary System Needed Part 1 Message-ID: <493C5397.9030105@ozemail.com.au> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.globalproblematique.net/pipermail/mai-not/attachments/20081208/2dfb98df/attachment.html From papadop at peak.org Sun Dec 7 20:34:41 2008 From: papadop at peak.org (MichaelP) Date: Sun Dec 7 21:23:41 2008 Subject: [Mai-not] Is this what U$ democracy is about ? Message-ID: http://www.prisonplanet.com/swat-team-conducts-food-raid-in-rural-ohio.html Swat Team conducts food raid in rural Ohio Saturday December 6, 2008 Over the past 20 years Congress has encouraged the U.S. military to supply intelligence, equipment, and training to civilian police. That encouragement has spawned a culture of paramilitarism in American law enforcement. The 1980s and 1990s have seen marked changes in the number of state and local paramilitary units, in their mission and deployment, and in their tactical armament." - Cato Institute (more below) "We cannot continue to rely on our military in order to achieve the national security objectives that we've set. We've got to have a civilian national security force that's just as powerful, just as strong, just as well-funded." -Barack Obama, "Obama's Civilian National Security Force" "At the World Food Programme we have recognized what a valuable tool food aid can be in changing behaviour. In so many poorer countries food is money, food is power....." -Catherine Bertini, Executive Director of the World Food Program, "The UN Plan for Food and Land" On Monday, December 1, a SWAT team with semi-automatic rifles entered the private home of the Stowers family in LaGrange, Ohio, herded the family onto the couches in the living room, and kept guns trained on parents, children, infants and toddlers, from approximately 11 AM to 8 PM. The team was aggressive and belligerent. The children were quite traumatized. At some point, the "bad cop" SWAT team was relieved by another team, a "good cop" team that tried to befriend the family. The Stowers family has run a very large, well-known food cooperative called Manna Storehouse on the western side of the greater Cleveland area for many years. There were agents from the Department of Agriculture present, one of them identified as Bill Lesho. The search warrant is reportedly suspicious-looking. Agents began rifling through all of the family's possessions, a task that lasted hours and resulted in a complete upheaval of every private area in the home. Many items were taken that were not listed on the search warrant. The family was not permitted a phone call, and they were not told what crime they were being charged with. They were not read their rights. Over ten thousand dollars worth of food was taken, including the family's personal stock of food for the coming year. All of their computers, and all of their cell phones were taken, as well as phone and contact records. The food cooperative was virtually shut down. There was no rational explanation, nor justification, for this extreme violation of Constitutional rights. Presumably Manna Storehouse might eventually be charged with running a retail establishment without a license. Why then the Gestapo-type interrogation for a 3rd degree misdemeanor charge? This incident has raised the ominous specter of a restrictive new era in State regulation and enforcement over the nation's private food supply. This same type of abusive search and seizure was reported by those innocents who fell victim to oppressive federal drug laws passed in the 1990s. The present circumstance raises the obvious question: is there some rabid new interpretation of an existing drug law that considers food a controlled substance worthy of a nasty SWAT operation? Or worse, is there a previously unrecognized provision(s) pertaining to food in the Homeland Security measures? Some have suggested that it was merely an out-of-control, hot-to-trot ODA agent, and, if so, this would be a best-case scenario. Anything else might spell the beginning of the end for the freedom to eat unregulated and unmonitored food. One blogger familiar with the Ohio situation has reported that: "Interestingly, I believe they [Manna Storehouse] said a month or so ago, an undercover ODA official came to their little store and claimed to have a sick father wanting to join the co-op. Both the owner and her daughter-in-law had a horrible feeling about the man, and decided not to allow him into the co-op and notified him by certified mail. He came back to the co-op demanding to be part of it. They refused and gave him names of other businesses and health food stores closer to his home. Not coincidentally, this man was there yesterday as part of the raid." The same blog also noted that the Ohio Department of Agriculture has been chastised by the courts in several previous instances for its aggression, including trying to entrap an Amish man in a raw milk "sale," which backfired when it became known that the Amish believe in a literal interpretation of "give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away" (Matthew 5:42) The issue appears to be the discovery of a bit of non-institutional beef in an Oberlin College food service freezer a year ago that was tracked down by a county sanitation official to Manna Storehouse. Oberlin College's student food coop is widely known for its strident ideological stance about eating organic foods. It seems that the Oberlin student food cooperative had joined the Manna Storehouse food cooperative in order to buy organic foods in bulk from the national organic food distributor United, which services buying clubs across the nation. The sanitation official, James Boddy, evidently contacted the Ohio Department of Agriculture. After the first contact by state ODA officials, Manna Storehouse reportedly wrote them a letter requesting assistance and guidelines for complying with the law. This letter was never answered. Rather, the ODA agent tried several times to infiltrate the coop, as described above. When his attempts failed, the SWAT team showed up! Food cooperatives and buying clubs have been an active part of the American landscape for over a generation. In the 1970s, with the rise of the organic food industry (a direct outgrowth of the hippie back-to-nature movement) food coops started up all over the country. These were groups of people who freely associated for the purpose of combining their buying power so that they could order organic food items in bulk and case lots. Anyone who was part of these coops in the early era will remember the messy breakdown of 35 pounds of peanut butter and 5 gallon drums of honey! These buying clubs have persisted and flourished over the years due to their ability to purchase high quality organic foods at reduced prices in bulk quantities. Most cooperatives have participated greatly in the local agrarian economies, supporting neighborhood organic farmers with purchases of produce, eggs, chickens, etc. The groups also purchase food from a number of different local, regional and national distributors, many of them family-based businesses who truck the food themselves. Some of these food cooperatives have become large enough to set up mini-storefront operations where members can drop in and purchase items leftover from case lot sales. Manna Storehouse had established itself in such a manner, using a small enclosed breezeway attached to their home. It was a folksy place with old wooden floors where coop members stopped by to chat and snack on bags of organic corn chips. The state of Ohio boasts the second largest Amish population in the country. Many of the Amish live on acreages where they raise their own food, not unlike Manna Storehouse, and sell off the extras to neighbors and church members. There is a sense of foreboding that this state crackdown on a longstanding, reputable food cooperative operation could adversely impact the peaceful agrarian way of life not only for the Amish, but homeschoolers and those families living off the land on rural acreages. It raises the disturbing possibility that it could become a crime to raise your own food, buy eggs from the farmer down the road, or butcher your own chickens for family and friends - bustling activities that routinely take place in backwater America. The freedom to purchase food directly form the source is increasingly under attack. For those who have food allergies and chemical intolerances, or who are on special medical diets, this is becoming a serious health issue. Will Americans retain the right to purchase food that is uncontaminated by pesticides, herbicides, allergens, additives, dyes, preservatives, MSG, GMOs, radiation, etc.? The melamine scare from China underscores the increasingly inferior and suspect quality of modern processed institutional foods. One blog, commenting on the bizarre and troubling Manna Storehouse situation, observed that: "No one is saying exactly why. At the same time the FDA says it is safe to eat the 40% of tainted beef found in Costco's and Sam's all over the nation. These farm raids are very common now. Every farmer needs to fully equipped [sic] for the possibility of it happening to them. The Farmer To Consumer Legal Defense Fund was created just for this purpose. The USDA just released their plans to put a law into action that will put all small farmers out of business. Animals for the sale of meat or milk will only be allowed in commercial farms, even the organic ones." December 3, 2008 7:09 PM Note: "The police paramilitary units also conduct training exercises with active duty Army Rangers and Navy SEALs. State and local police departments are increasingly accepting the military as a model for their behavior and outlook.... The problem is that the mindset of the soldier is simply not appropriate for the civilian police officer. Police officers confront not an `enemy' but individuals who are protected by the Bill of Rights. Confusing the police function with the military function can lead to dangerous and unintended consequences...." (Diane Cecilia Weber, Cato Institute, "Warrior Cops: The Ominous Growth of Paramilitarism in Police Departments") From diongiles1 at aapt.net.au Mon Dec 8 00:15:25 2008 From: diongiles1 at aapt.net.au (Dion Giles) Date: Mon Dec 8 00:26:12 2008 Subject: [Mai-not] But who are the free?? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20081208061526.9A69C10E85@fep03.mfe.bur.connect.com.au> What price the freedom of Americans to keep private armouries supposedly to protect their rights from government tyranny? (And they are about to be given new freedom to stalk national parks armed with handguns). Dion Giles Western Australia ==================================== At 11:34 08/12/2008, Michael wrote: >http://www.prisonplanet.com/swat-team-conducts-food-raid-in-rural-ohio.html > >Swat Team conducts food raid in rural Ohio > >Saturday December 6, 2008 > >Over the past 20 years Congress has encouraged the U.S. military to >supply intelligence, equipment, and training to civilian police. >That encouragement has spawned a culture of paramilitarism in >American law enforcement. The 1980s and 1990s have seen marked >changes in the number of state and local paramilitary units, in >their mission and deployment, and in their tactical armament." - >Cato Institute (more below) > >"We cannot continue to rely on our military in order to achieve the >national security objectives that we've set. We've got to have a >civilian national security force that's just as powerful, just as >strong, just as well-funded." -Barack Obama, "Obama's Civilian >National Security Force" > >"At the World Food Programme we have recognized what a valuable tool >food aid can be in changing behaviour. In so many poorer countries >food is money, food is power....." -Catherine Bertini, Executive >Director of the World Food Program, "The UN Plan for Food and Land" > >On Monday, December 1, a SWAT team with semi-automatic rifles >entered the private home of the Stowers family in LaGrange, Ohio, >herded the family onto the couches in the living room, and kept guns >trained on parents, children, infants and toddlers, from >approximately 11 AM to 8 PM. The team was aggressive and >belligerent. The children were quite traumatized. At some point, >the "bad cop" SWAT team was relieved by another team, a "good cop" >team that tried to befriend the family. The Stowers family >has run a very large, well-known food cooperative called Manna >Storehouse on the western side of the greater Cleveland area for many years. > >There were agents from the Department of Agriculture present, one >of them identified as Bill Lesho. The search warrant is >reportedly suspicious-looking. Agents began rifling through all of >the family's possessions, a task that lasted hours and >resulted in a complete upheaval of every private area in the home. >Many items were taken that were not listed on the search warrant. >The family was not permitted a phone call, and they were not told >what crime they were being charged with. They were not read their >rights. Over ten thousand dollars worth of food was taken, >including the family's personal stock of food for the coming year. >All of their computers, and all of their cell phones were taken, as >well as phone and contact records. The food cooperative was >virtually shut down. There was no rational explanation, nor >justification, for this extreme violation of Constitutional rights. > >Presumably Manna Storehouse might eventually be charged with running >a retail establishment without a license. Why then the >Gestapo-type interrogation for a 3rd degree misdemeanor charge? >This incident has raised the ominous >specter of a restrictive new era in State regulation and >enforcement over the nation's private food supply. > >This same type of abusive search and seizure was reported by >those innocents who fell victim to oppressive federal drug laws >passed in the 1990s. The present circumstance raises the obvious >question: is there some rabid new interpretation of an existing >drug law that considers food a >controlled substance worthy of a nasty SWAT operation? Or >worse, is there a previously unrecognized provision(s) >pertaining to food in the Homeland Security measures? Some have >suggested that it was merely an out-of-control, hot-to-trot ODA >agent, and, if so, this would be a best-case scenario. Anything >else might spell the beginning of the end for the freedom to eat >unregulated and unmonitored food. > >One blogger familiar with the Ohio situation has reported that: > >"Interestingly, I believe they [Manna Storehouse] said a month or >so ago, an undercover ODA official came to their little store and >claimed to have a sick father wanting to join the co-op. Both the >owner and her daughter-in-law had a horrible feeling about the man, >and decided not to allow him into the co-op and notified him by >certified mail. He came back to the co-op demanding to be part of >it. They refused and gave him names of other businesses and health >food stores closer to his home. Not coincidentally, this man was >there yesterday as part of the raid." > >The same blog also noted that the Ohio Department of Agriculture >has been chastised by the courts in several previous instances >for its aggression, including trying to entrap an Amish man in a >raw milk "sale," which backfired when it became known that the >Amish believe in a literal interpretation of "give to him that >asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou >away" (Matthew 5:42) > >The issue appears to be the discovery of a bit of >non-institutional beef in an Oberlin College food service freezer >a year ago that was tracked down by a county sanitation official >to Manna Storehouse. Oberlin College's student food coop is widely >known for its strident ideological stance about eating >organic foods. It seems that the Oberlin student food cooperative >had joined the Manna Storehouse food cooperative in order to buy >organic foods in bulk from the national >organic food distributor United, which services buying clubs >across the nation. The sanitation official, James Boddy, evidently >contacted the Ohio Department of Agriculture. After the first >contact by state ODA >officials, Manna Storehouse reportedly wrote them a letter >requesting assistance and guidelines for complying with the law. >This letter was never answered. Rather, the ODA agent tried several >times to infiltrate the coop, as described above. When his attempts >failed, the SWAT team showed up! > >Food cooperatives and buying clubs have been an active part of >the American landscape for over a generation. In the 1970s, with the >rise of the organic food industry (a direct outgrowth of the >hippie back-to-nature movement) food coops started up all over the >country. These were groups of people who freely associated for the >purpose of combining their buying power so that they could order >organic food items in bulk and case lots. Anyone who was part of >these coops in the early era will remember the messy breakdown >of 35 pounds of peanut butter and 5 gallon drums of honey! > >These buying clubs have persisted and flourished over the years due >to their ability to purchase high quality organic foods at reduced >prices in bulk quantities. Most cooperatives have participated >greatly in the local agrarian economies, supporting neighborhood >organic farmers with purchases of produce, eggs, chickens, etc. The >groups also purchase food from a number of >different local, regional and national distributors, many of >them family-based businesses who truck the food >themselves. Some of these food cooperatives have become large >enough to set up mini-storefront operations where members can >drop in and purchase items leftover from case lot sales. Manna >Storehouse had established itself in such a manner, using a small >enclosed breezeway attached to their home. It was a folksy place >with old wooden floors where coop members stopped by to chat and >snack on bags of organic corn chips. > >The state of Ohio boasts the second largest Amish population in >the country. Many of the Amish live on acreages where they raise >their own food, not >unlike Manna Storehouse, and sell off the extras to neighbors >and church members. There is a sense of foreboding that this >state crackdown on a >longstanding, reputable food cooperative operation could >adversely impact the peaceful agrarian way of life not >only for the Amish, but homeschoolers and those families living >off the land on rural acreages. It raises the disturbing possibility >that it could become a crime to raise your own food, buy eggs >from the farmer down the road, or butcher your own chickens for >family and friends - bustling activities that routinely take place >in backwater America. > >The freedom to purchase food directly form the source is >increasingly under >attack. For those who have food allergies and chemical >intolerances, or who are on special medical diets, this is becoming >a serious health issue. Will Americans retain the right to purchase >food that is uncontaminated >by pesticides, herbicides, allergens, >additives, dyes, preservatives, >MSG, GMOs, radiation, etc.? The melamine scare from China >underscores the increasingly inferior and >suspect quality of modern processed institutional foods. One >blog, commenting on the bizarre and troubling Manna Storehouse >situation, observed that: > >"No one is saying exactly why. At the same time the FDA says it is >safe to eat the 40% of tainted beef found in Costco's and Sam's all >over the nation. These farm raids are very common now. Every farmer >needs to fully equipped [sic] for the possibility of it happening >to them. The Farmer To Consumer Legal Defense Fund was created just >for this purpose. The USDA just released their plans to put a law >into action that will put all small farmers out of business. >Animals for the sale of meat or milk will only be allowed in >commercial farms, even the organic ones." December 3, 2008 7:09 PM > >Note: "The police paramilitary units also conduct training exercises >with active duty Army Rangers and Navy SEALs. State and local police >departments are increasingly accepting the military as a model for >their behavior and outlook.... The problem is that the mindset of >the soldier is simply not appropriate for the civilian police >officer. Police officers confront not an `enemy' but individuals who >are protected by the Bill of Rights. Confusing the police function >with the military function can lead to dangerous and unintended >consequences...." (Diane Cecilia Weber, Cato Institute, "Warrior >Cops: The Ominous Growth of Paramilitarism in Police Departments") > >_______________________________________________ >Mai-not mailing list >Mai-not@globalproblematique.net >http://www.globalproblematique.net/mailman/listinfo/mai-not From diongiles1 at aapt.net.au Mon Dec 8 05:50:19 2008 From: diongiles1 at aapt.net.au (Dion Giles) Date: Mon Dec 8 05:50:28 2008 Subject: [Mai-not] Naomi Klein on how shock doctrine tanked in Canada Message-ID: <20081208115020.5197810F7C@fep01.mfe.bur.connect.com.au> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.globalproblematique.net/pipermail/mai-not/attachments/20081208/0301ae76/attachment.html From thinker at thelakebc.ca Mon Dec 8 09:51:43 2008 From: thinker at thelakebc.ca (Ed Deak) Date: Mon Dec 8 09:48:21 2008 Subject: [Mai-not] EU dumping of toxic waste off Somalia Message-ID: <200812081548.mB8FmESv010527@karma.reboot.ca> [Comment] EU firms should stop toxic dumping off Somalia ABDIMAJID OSMAN Today @ 08:30 CET EUOBSERVER / COMMENT - The European Union's defence ministers launched on 10 November 2008 an anti-piracy mission called "Atalanta" off the coast of Somalia. The bloc claims that the goal of the enterprise is "to escort the World Food Programme's humanitarian convoys to Somalia and to contribute to the improvement of maritime security off the Somali coast as part of the European Union's overall action to stabilise Somalia." Somalia: European and Asian companies are dumping toxic waste, including nuclear waste in the sea, the author says (Photo: wikipedia) More recently, the EU pushed for a UN Security Council resolution that was adopted on 2 December to allow member states to fight pirates off the coast of Somalia. The French UN Ambassador Jean-Maurice Ripert expressed his satisfaction with the resolution because: "Piracy is killing. Every day more than three million Somali people are depending on food aid, on emergency relief - which comes, 95 percent of it - by sea." In a time when Somalia is experiencing one of its most serious humanitarian crises ever, one would think that the unexpected determination and speed of the EU in deploying military muscle in the region should be welcomed by the Somali people. But unfortunately, Atalanta looks like another disappointing duplicity toward the war-torn nation. Doubts hang over whether the EU is genuinely keen to help the people of Somalia in their desperate search for peace and stability. Securing supply of oil Two factors undermine the credibility of the EU's operation in Somalia. Firstly, the main goal of the mission seems to be to secure the supply of goods and oil to the rich countries in the West. In the past, the European Union resolutely rejected repeated calls from the African Union and Somalia's neighbours to deploy peace-keeping forces in the country. The rise of piracy on Somalia's waters has suddenly ignited a spark in the corridors of EU decision makers, after the hijacking of a large Saudi oil tanker reminded the western world of the vulnerability of maritime trade at a time of financial crisis. The organisation Refugees International (RI) criticised, recently, this global hypocrisy toward Somalia. The RI stated that "the speed and resolve with which piracy has been addressed by the UN Security Council underlines Somali sentiment that economic interests trump humanitarian concerns." Secondly, the EU's inability or unwillingness to stop and punish the European-owned companies that have for many years been dumping toxic waste off the Somali coast seriously undermines the ethical claims of the new EU endeavour. Toxic waste In 1996, when I was in the northern autonomous region, Puntland, in Somalia, there was already a widespread fear that foreign ships were taking advantage of the collapse of the Somalian state by using the nation's waters as a refuse dump. When the tsunami of 2004 hit the country, the United Nation Environment Programme (UNEP) reported that many waste containers washed up on the the coast of Puntland. It is now widely understood that European companies are systematically dumping toxic waste in these waters. The UN special envoy for Somalia, Ahmedou Ould Abdallah, has in the past few months repeatedly sounded the alarm about illegal fishing and toxic dumping off Somalia by European firms. Mr Abdullah said that his organisation has "reliable information" that European and Asian companies are dumping the waste - including nuclear waste, - in this region. The European Union has responded to these allegations with silence. At a press conference on 2 December, following the UN Security Council resolution on Somalia, a reporter from Inner City Press asked Ambassador Ripert of France, which holds the EU's presidency, about how the waste issue will be dealt with. The ambassador answered: "I have no comment on the issue." There is now a fear that, if the EU clears Somali waters of pirates, European waste-dumping firms will inherit a safe haven to exercise their criminal and immoral activities. If Europe wants to help the unfortunate people of Somalia, the most responsible and credible way to start would be stop and punish those companies. In the long term, the union should also develop a comprehensive plan for the restoration of peace and stability in the country. The Somali born author is a chemist at Linkoping University Hospital, Sweden and can be contacted at abdimajid@passagen.se ? 2008 EUobserver.com. All rights reserved. Printed on 08.12.2008. From jomut at yahoo.com Mon Dec 8 13:19:36 2008 From: jomut at yahoo.com (John Mutambirwa) Date: Mon Dec 8 13:19:43 2008 Subject: [Mai-not] trash, anyone? Message-ID: <521828.30118.qm@web31104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> John Mutambirwa (Dreaming Awake) jomut@yahoo.com chakane@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/jomut ? Hi, ? Kinda interesting argument along the lines of, "Which trash is better?" debate on 23/6. ? John =============== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.globalproblematique.net/pipermail/mai-not/attachments/20081208/0c038c69/attachment.html From diongiles1 at aapt.net.au Mon Dec 8 13:55:31 2008 From: diongiles1 at aapt.net.au (Dion Giles) Date: Mon Dec 8 13:55:46 2008 Subject: [Mai-not] 9/11 curve ball from Guantanamo Bay Message-ID: <20081208195532.325ACF7AC@fep04.mfe.bur.connect.com.au> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.globalproblematique.net/pipermail/mai-not/attachments/20081209/b9bcd3c7/attachment.html From glparramatta at greenleft.org.au Tue Dec 9 05:19:20 2008 From: glparramatta at greenleft.org.au (glparramatta) Date: Tue Dec 9 05:34:02 2008 Subject: [Mai-not] What's new at Links: Castro on Obama; Evo Morales on climate; Malaysian socialists; Thailand; Nepal; Zimbabwe; Indonesia; economy Message-ID: <493E5438.3030205@greenleft.org.au> Subscribe free to /Links - International Journal of Socialist Renewal/ - at http://www.feedblitz.com/f/?Sub=343373 Visit and bookmark http://links.org.au and add it to your RSS feed (http://links.org.au/rss.xml). If you would like us to consider an article, please send it to links@dsp.org.au Please pass on to anybody you think will be interested in Links. * * * Fidel Castro on `Team Obama' By Fidel Castro Ruz December 4, 2008 -- Following Barack Obama's speech, on May 23, 2008, to the Cuban American National Foundation established by Ronald Reagan, I wrote a reflection entitled ``The empire's hypocritical policy''. In that reflection I quoted his exact words to the Miami annexationists. I then offered several arguments and unethical examples of the general behaviour of the presidents who preceded the one who would be elected to that position in the November 4 elections. * Read more Evo Morales on addressing climate change: `Save the planet from capitalism' By Evo Morales Ayma, President of Bolivia November 28, 2008 -- Sisters and brothers, today our Mother Earth is ill. From the beginning of the 21st century we have lived the hottest years of the last thousand years. Global warming is generating abrupt changes in the weather: the retreat of glaciers and the decrease of the polar ice caps; the increase of the sea level and the flooding of coastal areas, where approximately 60% of the world population live; the increase in the processes of desertification and the decrease of fresh water sources; a higher frequency in natural disasters that the communities of the earth suffer[1]; the extinction of animal and plant species; and the spread of diseases in areas that before were free from those diseases. Everything began with the industrial revolution in 1750, which gave birth to the capitalist system. In two and a half centuries, the so called "developed" countries have consumed a large part of the fossil fuels created over five million centuries. * Read more Malaysia: Bicycle protesters for workers' rights defy police intimidation By Oppressed People's Movement (Jaring Rakyat Tertindas, Jerit) December 6, 2008 -- The Oppressed People's Movement (Jaring Rakyat Tertindas, Jerit) is conducting a cycling campaign throughout Malaysia to highlight demands for workers' right, which will be presented to the prime minister of Malaysia. The campaign officially began on December 3 at Wisma Darul Aman Kedah, where 50 cyclists were flagged off. They will cycle for 16 days through Kedah, Penang, Perak and Selangor. On December 18, they will hand a memorandum to the prime minister, at the national parliament in Kuala Lumpur. * Read more Team Obama: Channelling Clinton, extending Bush By Patrick Bond December 4, 2008 -- Barack Obama was elected on a platform of change. Yet, his actions are pointing to more and more of the same. The question of whether Obama can possibly replace Bush as a danger to world peace is worth considering. * Read more Communist Party of Nepal (Maoist): The differences of opinion within our party By Netra Bikram Chand 'Biplap' We should say honestly that there is a difference of opinion on how to accomplish the Nepalese Revolution. Mainly, the difference of opinion is about the party line, political program and tactics in our party. This clearly justifies that a serious u-turn has occurred before the Nepalese Revolution. The responsibility of carrying the revolution ahead successfully has fallen upon the shoulders of the revolutionary communists of Nepal and the revolutionary communists of the world. We all should direct our attention to it. * Read more Zimbabwe: First signs of united front mass action against elite settlement By the National Co-Ordinating Committee, International Socialist Organisation Zimbabwe December 2, 2008 -- The situation in Zimbabwe has reached unprecedented levels of crisis. As we have been saying for the last few years, such a crisis was climaxing and with a number of possibilities arising. First and most likely was the likelihood of the bourgeois elite politicians in [President Robert Mugabe's] Zimbabwe African National Union-Patriotic Front (ZANU-PF) and the opposition Movement for Democratic Change (MDC) uniting together in an elitist government of national unity in which ZANU-PF would be the senior partner around a Western- and capitalist-supported neoliberal economic agenda. The MDC's popularity would be used to pacify the urban working people from rising up. * Read more Indonesia: Activists debate electoral tactic By Kelik Ismunanto November 29, 2008 -- After such a long period of time in a vacuum, uncertain of how to respond to changes caused by neoliberal economic policies, little by little, democracy movement activists have been able to wrest back the political podium. In the last few months, several national television stations provided a political stage for activists such as Dita Sari, Budiman Sujatmiko, Pius Lustrilanang and other young activists who are contesting the 2009 elections, to explain their reasons for choosing the parliamentary tactic. Among young activists, there are opinions in favour and against this tactic. * Read more Malaysia: Detention without trial -- Abolish the Internal Security Act 1960! By Enalini Elumalai, general coordinator Suara Rakyat Malaysia (Suaram) November 27, 2008 -- While Malaysia celebrated its 51st anniversary of Merdeka (independence) from Britain in 2008, the Malaysian government continued to arrest and detain individuals without charging them or putting them on trial under the Internal Security Act 1960 * Read more Thailand: A second `coup for the rich' By Giles Ji Ungpakorn, Bangkok December 2, 2008 -- Today the constitutional court dissolved the democratically elected governing party, the People Power Party, in Thailand for the second time, forcing the government to resign. This follows the refusal of the armed forces and the police to follow government instructions to clear the two international airports blocked by armed People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) fascists. * Read more Socialist Party of Malaysia: The left in coalition politics (+ interview with PSM MP) By Jeyakumar Devaraj November 8, 2008 -- Ever since the First International, building and working within coalitions with other groups has been one of the strategies used by the left to attempt to advance its political agenda. This practice has continued up until the present. However the strategy of working in coalitions with other groups has, fairly often, led to controversy, disagreements and even acrimonious splits, both of the coalitions as well as within the left parties involved themselves. Why does this happen? Is the strategy of coalition work worth the effort and trouble? What are the benefits of coalition building? What are measures a socialist party can take to avoid some of the negative consequences of coalition political work? * Read more The `third slump' and its consequences By Phil Hearse November 30, 2008 -- Ernest Mandel called the market crash and global recession of 1974-5 the ``second slump'' (1) - the first one being of course that of the 1930s, initiated by the stockmarket crash of 1929. We now know that the crash of 2008-9 is more severe, and will have more devastating consequences than that in the 1970s; whether it will be as bad as the 1930s slump we have yet to see. But it is now clear that this is a fundamental crisis of the neoliberal ``mode of regulation'' which now is under severe pressure and probably cannot survive in its present form. Theorists who in this period stress the relative stability and continuity of modern capitalism are, as we shall see, way off the mark. This article aims to give a brief explanation of why the crash has happened; to situate it in the history of development of capitalism; to discuss possible consequences, especially those for the working class in Britain and internationally; and to suggest political implications for the radical left. * Read more * * * Links seeks to promote the international exchange of information, experience of struggle, theoretical analysis and views of political strategy and tactics within the international left. It is a forum for open and constructive dialogue between active socialists coming from different political traditions. It seeks to bring together those in the international left who are opposed to neoliberal economic and social policies. It aims to promote the renewal of the socialist movement in the wake of the collapse of the bureaucratic model of "actually existing socialism" in the Soviet Union and Eastern Europe. * ATTENTION: Sign up for regular ``what's new'' announcement emails at http://www.feedblitz.com/f/?Sub=343373 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.globalproblematique.net/pipermail/mai-not/attachments/20081209/4936f393/attachment.html From thinker at thelakebc.ca Tue Dec 9 09:53:30 2008 From: thinker at thelakebc.ca (Ed Deak) Date: Tue Dec 9 09:50:25 2008 Subject: [Mai-not] Fwd: "What a Potential U.S. Road ..." Message-ID: <200812091550.mB9FoFV2008299@karma.reboot.ca> I hope these planned road constructions will not include the NAFTA superhighway. Cheers, Ed. >The last phase of St. Vitus? dance > > > >Equity markets are on fire today and everyone is >speaking about the great plan. Obviously a few >analysts are currently building in their growth >4casts for 2009/2010 raising demand for steel >and any other industrial metals - could this be >one of the big surprises in 2009? I've been >getting a lots of traction with clients on this >topic this morning given weekend's newsflow by >President-elect Obama. For those of you who >haven't seen Andy Lees' excellent note this AM, he makes the following point: > >"If you then turn to the buy side, American >President elect Obama has proposed the largest >infrastructure program since the 1950?s Highways >program. Add in China?s massive stimulus, and >other such programs around the world, and it >seems we are about to see a global construction >boom. Cement and steel is not much more than >embedded energy. Mining is hugely energy >intensive. Turning rock into aggregates and >transporting it is hugely energy intensive. >Shifting soil and rocks to make smooth surfaces >for roads and railways is hugely energy >intensive. Even building out alternative energy >systems takes about 5 years to get energy >breakeven. Rather than look at the present >stimulus plans as the biggest monetary stimulus >on record, surely we should consider them to be >the biggest energy consuming programs on record." > >Given the MASSIVE sell off we've witnessed in >the industrial commodity space in the past few >months, all we need are for things to get a bit >"less -ve" for equities in this space to bounce >hard BUT let us revisit how President-elect >Obama is going to define "use it or lose it" as >this in my view can make or break this. > >The Congressional Budget Office estimates that >the 1st year spend out rate on new >infrastructure spending is just 26%, hardly >making it timely in the macroeconomic sense. >Last year the US spent a bit over $400bn on >non-defence capex. Of this, about $90bn was for >equipment and software (not normally considered >infrastructure) and $310bn for structures which >includes roads, buildings, water and sewer >systems and other transportation infrastructure. >So even a 30% increase in the spending on >infrastructure would still only amount to $90bn. >It is worth recalling that it took President >Reagan 4yrs to achieve a 30% rise in real defence spending. > >Infrastructure needs are great not because govts >don't spend enough, but because they spend it >badly. Moreover, Federal law requires that >everyone hired for these pending infrastructure >projects be paid prevailing (read union) wages >under the Davis-Bacon Act. Yes, a lots could be >done quickly if "use it or lose it" is enforced >in US. I am not talking about only "rocket >scientist" type projects that have long >implementation lead times. Some will require >more planning, but there's lots that just needs >fixing without too much need to think about how >to do it BUT the challenge will be to avoid >fraud in bidding and award contracts! Our >colleagues have sent around a piece 2wks ago on >the impact of heightened US road spending, >looking at aggregates, E&C companies, and steel >names. We already have had a lot of calls, and >the piece has generated quite a bit of interest. >We're told it's the only one out there! Please find it attached. > >A few comments from it: > >* Road building and other infrastructure will >still be offset against a sharp decline in other >non-res spending. China's property sector is >very overbuilt and US non-res construction >spending should be down 10-30% in 2009. > >* Sheet steel and aluminium are not widely used >in infrastructure. So not so clear on benefit to >X and AA, but certainly in steel world Nucor's >beam, bars and plate, GNA's rebar and beams, >CMC's rebar, and STLD's beams can benefit. (note >shows exposure to infrastructure). Plate is used >primarily to make heavy equipment, not sheet. >Rebar is used in all concrete applications. > >* Our attached note looks at 2009 road stimulus >up $20B, $50B, and $100B. We think the middle >value is the most likely to be spent in 2009. > >* To clarify, I am not saying infrastructure >stimulus can't be a nice boon to aggregates and >steels, but I would beware of getting too >carried away with the theme in light of other >challenges, especially for the balance sheet >stretched building materials names that have >been closing sharply higher for 2 wks now. > ><> > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... 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From papadop at peak.org Tue Dec 9 10:13:32 2008 From: papadop at peak.org (MichaelP) Date: Tue Dec 9 11:02:44 2008 Subject: [Mai-not] Greek Protests continue in the streets Message-ID: I have to ask what it is about the Greek population that brings them to publicly protest a police shooting of a 15year-old - and I'm really asking why police killings in the U$ or in the UK - and perhaps other places - don't have any such effect ? It's surely not that the Greeks are pushing back against a highly repressive state - but is it that the U$ and the UK states have reached a critical level where repression works without exciting protest ? M. ########## http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,,3859825,00.html Deutche-Welle December 9 Protesters Clash With Police Outside Greek Parliament Police are successfully blocking attempts by protesters to storm the parliament in Athens. Authorities across Greece are bracing themselves for more protests as the teenager shot dead by police is buried. Hundreds of protesters have clashed with police on Tuesday, Dec. 9, in front of Greece's parliament. Lines of riot police have been fighting off demonstrators, many throwing stones and bottles at them. Meanwhile, hundreds of thousands of high school and university students are in Athens for the funeral of Andreas-Alexandros Grigoropoulos on Tuesday. The 15-year-old was fatally shot by police over the weekend, triggering the worst rioting Greece has experienced in decades. The Greek Culture Ministry declared Tuesday a day of mourning. All schools across the country remain closed. Young people plan to commemorate Grigoropoulos in the Athens city center in the afternoon. For the evening, the opposition Socialist party Pasok has called for a candlelight demonstration. Athen's Christmas tree burns Bildunterschrift: Groansicht des Bildes mit der Bildunterschrift: Rioters even torched Athens' giant Christmas tree in central Syntagma Square "An entire generation is mourning on the streets today," said Pasok leader George Papandreou. Papandreou called for peaceful protests during the day of the funeral. People should demonstrate "against the force of the state and against the violence towards fellow countrymen." According to Greek television reports, Grigoropoulos' funeral is taking place on Tuesday afternoon in the Athens suburb Palaio Faliro. Police already in the morning hours began increasing security measures at the small cemetery, with authorities across the country braced for further violence. In addition, Greek unions have called a 24-hour general strike for Wednesday. Rioters can expect drastic measures Prime Minister Costas Karamanlis said there would be no leniency in dealing with the rioters. "No one has the right to misuse this tragic incident as an alibi for actions of raw violence, for actions against innocent people, against their property, against the entire society and against democracy," he said on Tuesday following a crisis meeting with President Karolos Papoulias. A car burns outside Athens University Bildunterschrift: Groansicht des Bildes mit der Bildunterschrift: The damage across Greece is estimated to total millions of euros "All the dangerous and unacceptable events that occurred because of the emotions that followed the tragic incident cannot and will not be tolerated," Karamanlis said. The prime minister began emergency talks on Tuesday on ways to halt the rioting that is threatening the conservative government. "In these critical hours, all politicians have to isolate and condemn those causing this chaos," Karamanlis said. According to Greek media reports, the meeting is an attempt to reach a consensus among all top politicians so that the police can end the riots across the country with force, if necessary. Rioting could have political implications Riot police stand ready for action in a central part of the northern Greek city of Thessaloniki Bildunterschrift: Groansicht des Bildes mit der Bildunterschrift: Festively decorated Greek streets were lit up by rioters' fires Political analysts have said the government's grip on power is weakening. Karamanlis' party only holds a one-seat majority in parliament and was already trailing the opposition Socialists by more than five percentage points before the riots. Pasok leader Papandreou accused the conservative government of incompetence and called for new elections. "The only thing this government can offer is to resign and turn to the people for its verdict," Papandreou told a party meeting inside parliament. "We claim power." Government promises complete investigation The exact events leading up to Grigoropoulos' death still remain unclear. The policeman who fired the deadly bullet continued to confirm he solely fired warning shots. One of them ricocheted and hit the boy. But at least three eye witnesses have said on Greek television that the policeman aimed directly at the boy and shot him. Karamanlis said there would be a complete investigation to clarify the teenager's death and the guilty party would be brought to justice. "I have assured the country's president: we will not show any mercy for those responsible," he said. From ptuffley at xtra.co.nz Wed Dec 10 15:22:22 2008 From: ptuffley at xtra.co.nz (Peter Tuffley) Date: Wed Dec 10 15:24:14 2008 Subject: [Mai-not] Greek Protests continue in the streets In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1C68713B-0554-44AF-9183-5205590F1A8D@xtra.co.nz> On 10/12/2008, at 5:13 AM, MichaelP wrote: > I have to ask what it is about the Greek population that brings them > to publicly protest a police shooting of a 15year-old - and I'm > really asking why police killings in the U$ or in the UK - and > perhaps other places - don't have any such effect ? It's surely not > that the Greeks are pushing back against a highly repressive state - > but is it that the U$ and the UK states have reached a critical > level where repression works without exciting protest ? > > M. > > Perhaps it's partly a matter of temperament ? look at the riots over a few cartoons of the Prophet that killed no-one. One possibly significant difference is that for many people any event involving violence by the forces of the state awakes (or can for self- seeking purposes be exploited to awaken) memories of the coup and subsequent tyrannical regime of the mob widely labelled "The Greek Colonels"?experiences that citizens of the UK and US have not had. In the UK, memories of some 30 years of factional bombings, shootings etc (e.g. wondering, when you here that a bomb has exploded in a pub, worrying as to whether friends of yours were there at the time) ? not to mentio more recent jihadist bombings? have bred a tendency (albeit more than somewhat uneasy at times) to accept that the coercive forces of the state have been tasked to preserve the peace, and that sometimes that requires killing people. Of course it's an absolute tragedy when, like the boy in Greece and the Brazilian gentleman in the London Undergound, innocent people die; and more "philosophical" attitude of the Brits doesn't mean that these deaths don't arouse a sense of outrage. But ? regrettable though this may be ? to people who lived through the Luftwaffe's air-raids, the bombs, bullets etc of the Irish "Troubles", and the current jihadist attacks, individual deaths don't figure hugely in overall scheme of things. Peter (expatriate Brit) > > ########## > > http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,,3859825,00.html > > > Deutche-Welle December 9 > > > Protesters Clash With Police Outside Greek Parliament > > > Police are successfully blocking attempts by protesters to storm the > parliament in Athens. Authorities across Greece are bracing > themselves for more protests as the teenager shot dead by police is > buried. > > Hundreds of protesters have clashed with police on Tuesday, Dec. 9, > in front of Greece's parliament. Lines of riot police have been > fighting off demonstrators, many throwing stones and bottles at them. > > > Meanwhile, hundreds of thousands of high school and > university students are in Athens for the funeral of > Andreas-Alexandros Grigoropoulos on Tuesday. The 15-year-old was > fatally shot by police over the weekend, triggering the worst > rioting Greece has experienced in decades. > > > The Greek Culture Ministry declared Tuesday a day of mourning. > All schools across the country remain closed. Young people > plan to commemorate Grigoropoulos in the Athens city center in the > afternoon. For the evening, the opposition Socialist party Pasok has > called for a candlelight demonstration. > > > Athen's Christmas tree burns Bildunterschrift: Groansicht des > Bildes mit der Bildunterschrift: Rioters even torched > Athens' giant Christmas tree in central Syntagma Square > > "An entire generation is mourning on the streets today," said > Pasok leader George Papandreou. > > > Papandreou called for peaceful protests during the day of the > funeral. People should demonstrate "against the force of the state > and against the violence towards fellow countrymen." > > > According to Greek television reports, Grigoropoulos' funeral > is taking place on Tuesday afternoon in the Athens suburb Palaio > Faliro. > > > Police already in the morning hours began increasing security > measures at the small cemetery, with authorities across the country > braced for further violence. In addition, Greek unions have > called a 24-hour general strike for Wednesday. > > > Rioters can expect drastic measures > > > Prime Minister Costas Karamanlis said there would be no leniency > in dealing with the rioters. > > > "No one has the right to misuse this tragic incident as an alibi > for actions of raw violence, for actions against innocent people, > against their property, against the entire society and against > democracy," he said on Tuesday following a crisis meeting with > President Karolos Papoulias. > > > A car burns outside Athens University Bildunterschrift: > Groansicht des Bildes mit der Bildunterschrift: The damage > across Greece is estimated to total millions of euros > > "All the dangerous and unacceptable events that occurred because > of the emotions that followed the tragic incident cannot and will > not be tolerated," Karamanlis said. > > > The prime minister began emergency talks on Tuesday on ways to > halt the rioting that is threatening the conservative government. > > > "In these critical hours, all politicians have to isolate and > condemn those causing this chaos," Karamanlis said. > > > According to Greek media reports, the meeting is an attempt to reach > a consensus among all top politicians so that the police can end > the riots across the country with force, if necessary. > > > Rioting could have political implications > > > Riot police stand ready for action in a central part of the > northern Greek city of Thessaloniki Bildunterschrift: Groansicht > des Bildes mit der Bildunterschrift: Festively decorated Greek > streets were lit up by rioters' fires > > Political analysts have said the government's grip on power > is weakening. Karamanlis' party only holds a one-seat > majority in parliament and was already trailing the opposition > Socialists by more than five percentage points before the riots. > > > Pasok leader Papandreou accused the conservative government > of incompetence and called for new elections. > > > "The only thing this government can offer is to resign and turn to > the people for its verdict," Papandreou told a party meeting > inside parliament. "We claim power." > > > Government promises complete investigation > > > The exact events leading up to Grigoropoulos' death still > remain unclear. The policeman who fired the deadly bullet > continued to confirm he solely fired warning shots. One of them > ricocheted and hit the boy. But at least three eye witnesses > have said on Greek television that the policeman aimed directly at > the boy and shot him. > > > Karamanlis said there would be a complete investigation to clarify > the teenager's death and the guilty party would be brought to justice. > > > "I have assured the country's president: we will not show any > mercy for those responsible," he said. > > _______________________________________________ > Mai-not mailing list > Mai-not@globalproblematique.net > http://www.globalproblematique.net/mailman/listinfo/mai-not From thinker at thelakebc.ca Wed Dec 10 18:04:18 2008 From: thinker at thelakebc.ca (Ed Deak) Date: Wed Dec 10 18:00:59 2008 Subject: [Mai-not] Greek Protests continue in the streets In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200812110000.mBB00mo1009946@karma.reboot.ca> It would be relatively easy to find out whether the boy was shot directly, or by a ricochet, because a directly fired bullet penetrates straight in, but a ricochet would go in sideways , or in any case not directly and do a much bigger damage. The Russians we were fighting had mostly submachineguns they fired from the hip and their bullets were flying all over the place, mostly high above. Thank goodness, they were lousy shots, mostly making a lot of noise. They had lots of purple marker bullets and we could see them spinning in the air after hitting tree branches etc. Their snipers were deadly and one of them shot me in the stomach, but his shot also ricocheted off my own cartridge pouch. Still have the 2 bent ones. It was estimated that in WW2 it took 30,000 rifle etc. bullets to hit anybody, with mostly repeating rifles. Today the number would be much higher. with mostly automatics . Could be 100,000. The main role of the infantry is to make lots of noise and give the generals a game to push them around on the maps. What was the kid doing and why did the cop shoot in the first place ? Cheers, Ed. At 08:13 AM 09/12/2008, you wrote: >I have to ask what it is about the Greek population that brings them >to publicly protest a police shooting of a 15year-old - and I'm >really asking why police killings in the U$ or in the UK - and >perhaps other places - don't have any such effect ? It's surely not >that the Greeks are pushing back against a highly repressive state - >but is it that the U$ and the UK states have reached a critical >level where repression works without exciting protest ? > >M. > > > >########## > >http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,,3859825,00.html > > >Deutche-Welle December 9 > > >Protesters Clash With Police Outside Greek Parliament > > >Police are successfully blocking attempts by protesters to storm the >parliament in Athens. Authorities across Greece are bracing >themselves for more protests as the teenager shot dead by police is buried. > >Hundreds of protesters have clashed with police on Tuesday, Dec. 9, >in front of Greece's parliament. Lines of riot police have been >fighting off demonstrators, many throwing stones and bottles at them. > > >Meanwhile, hundreds of thousands of high school and >university >students are in Athens for the funeral of >Andreas-Alexandros Grigoropoulos on Tuesday. The 15-year-old was >fatally shot by police over the weekend, triggering the worst >rioting Greece has experienced in decades. > > >The Greek Culture Ministry declared Tuesday a day of mourning. >All >schools across the country remain closed. Young people plan >to commemorate Grigoropoulos in the Athens city center in the >afternoon. For the evening, the opposition Socialist party Pasok has >called for a candlelight demonstration. > > >Athen's Christmas tree burns Bildunterschrift: Groansicht des >Bildes mit >der Bildunterschrift: Rioters even torched Athens' giant >Christmas tree in central Syntagma Square > >"An entire generation is mourning on the streets today," said >Pasok leader George Papandreou. > > >Papandreou called for peaceful protests during the day of the >funeral. People should demonstrate "against the force of the state >and against the violence towards fellow countrymen." > > >According to Greek television reports, Grigoropoulos' funeral >is taking place on Tuesday afternoon in the Athens suburb Palaio Faliro. > > >Police already in the morning hours began increasing security >measures at the small cemetery, with authorities across the country >braced for further violence. In addition, Greek unions have >called a 24-hour general strike for Wednesday. > > >Rioters can expect drastic measures > > >Prime Minister Costas Karamanlis said there would be no leniency >in dealing with the rioters. > > >"No one has the right to misuse this tragic incident as an alibi >for actions of raw violence, for actions against innocent people, >against their property, against the entire society and against >democracy," he said on Tuesday following a crisis meeting with >President Karolos Papoulias. > > >A car burns outside Athens University Bildunterschrift: >Groansicht des Bildes mit der Bildunterschrift: The damage >across Greece is estimated to total millions of euros > >"All the dangerous and unacceptable events that occurred because >of the emotions that followed the tragic incident cannot and will >not be tolerated," Karamanlis said. > > >The prime minister began emergency talks on Tuesday on ways to >halt the rioting that is threatening the conservative government. > > >"In these critical hours, all politicians have to isolate and >condemn those causing this chaos," Karamanlis said. > > >According to Greek media reports, the meeting is an attempt to reach >a consensus among all top politicians so that the police can end >the riots across the country with force, if necessary. > > >Rioting could have political implications > > >Riot police stand ready for action in a central part of the >northern Greek city of Thessaloniki Bildunterschrift: Groansicht >des Bildes mit der Bildunterschrift: Festively decorated Greek >streets were lit up by rioters' fires > >Political analysts have said the government's grip on power >is >weakening. Karamanlis' party only holds a one-seat majority >in parliament and was already trailing the opposition Socialists by >more than five percentage points before the riots. > > >Pasok leader Papandreou accused the conservative government >of incompetence and called for new elections. > > >"The only thing this government can offer is to resign and turn to >the people for its verdict," Papandreou told a party meeting >inside parliament. "We claim power." > > >Government promises complete investigation > > >The exact events leading up to Grigoropoulos' death still >remain unclear. The policeman who fired the deadly bullet >continued to confirm he solely fired warning shots. One of them >ricocheted and hit the >boy. But at least three eye witnesses have said on Greek >television that the policeman aimed directly at the boy and shot him. > > >Karamanlis said there would be a complete investigation to clarify >the teenager's death and the guilty party would be brought to justice. > > >"I have assured the country's president: we will not show any >mercy for those responsible," he said. > >_______________________________________________ >Mai-not mailing list >Mai-not@globalproblematique.net >http://www.globalproblematique.net/mailman/listinfo/mai-not > > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.9.15/1837 - Release Date: >12/8/2008 9:38 AM From duanebehrens at cox.net Thu Dec 11 00:32:21 2008 From: duanebehrens at cox.net (Duane Behrens) Date: Thu Dec 11 00:32:30 2008 Subject: [Mai-not] Thought for the Day from Anu Garg Message-ID: <20081211013221.8AGAK.25783.imail@fed1rmwml39> "Religions are not revealed - they are evolved. If a religion were revealed by God, that religion would be perfect in whole and in part, and would be as perfect at the first moment of its revelation as after ten thousand years of practice. There has never been a religion which fulfills those conditions." -Robert Blatchford, author (1851-1943) From diongiles1 at aapt.net.au Thu Dec 11 01:46:47 2008 From: diongiles1 at aapt.net.au (Dion Giles) Date: Thu Dec 11 01:47:10 2008 Subject: [Mai-not] Greek Protests continue in the streets In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20081211074648.B18A0F756@fep05.mfe.bur.connect.com.au> It would be easier to comment is the news outlets disclosed more of what led the boy into conflict with the police. If it was just a lot of yobs attacking the police and one got killed by a ricochet the reaction seems astounding - especially when there was so little reaction to the British "specials" hunting a bloke into a train, holding him down and executing him. Maybe, as Britain is founded on injustice, acts of injustice are no big deal there. None of those rioting youths would have been born when the army vermin ran Greece, but the experience will have worked its way into the culture as a very healthy hatred of the coercive arms of the state. Wonder what the intelligent section of the Greek press and commentariat are saying about it? Not much seems to have got into English-language media (including the alternative media) except the superficial accounts of the violence. Dion Giles Western Australia At 01:13 10/12/2008, you wrote: >I have to ask what it is about the Greek population that brings them >to publicly protest a police shooting of a 15year-old - and I'm >really asking why police killings in the U$ or in the UK - and >perhaps other places - don't have any such effect ? It's surely not >that the Greeks are pushing back against a highly repressive state - >but is it that the U$ and the UK states have reached a critical >level where repression works without exciting protest ? > >M. > > > >########## > >http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,,3859825,00.html > > >Deutche-Welle December 9 > > >Protesters Clash With Police Outside Greek Parliament > > >Police are successfully blocking attempts by protesters to storm the >parliament in Athens. Authorities across Greece are bracing >themselves for more protests as the teenager shot dead by police is buried. > >Hundreds of protesters have clashed with police on Tuesday, Dec. 9, >in front of Greece's parliament. Lines of riot police have been >fighting off demonstrators, many throwing stones and bottles at them. > > >Meanwhile, hundreds of thousands of high school and >university >students are in Athens for the funeral of >Andreas-Alexandros Grigoropoulos on Tuesday. The 15-year-old was >fatally shot by police over the weekend, triggering the worst >rioting Greece has experienced in decades. > > >The Greek Culture Ministry declared Tuesday a day of mourning. >All >schools across the country remain closed. Young people plan >to commemorate Grigoropoulos in the Athens city center in the >afternoon. For the evening, the opposition Socialist party Pasok has >called for a candlelight demonstration. > > >Athen's Christmas tree burns Bildunterschrift: Groansicht des >Bildes mit >der Bildunterschrift: Rioters even torched Athens' giant >Christmas tree in central Syntagma Square > >"An entire generation is mourning on the streets today," said >Pasok leader George Papandreou. > > >Papandreou called for peaceful protests during the day of the >funeral. People should demonstrate "against the force of the state >and against the violence towards fellow countrymen." > > >According to Greek television reports, Grigoropoulos' funeral >is taking place on Tuesday afternoon in the Athens suburb Palaio Faliro. > > >Police already in the morning hours began increasing security >measures at the small cemetery, with authorities across the country >braced for further violence. In addition, Greek unions have >called a 24-hour general strike for Wednesday. > > >Rioters can expect drastic measures > > >Prime Minister Costas Karamanlis said there would be no leniency >in dealing with the rioters. > > >"No one has the right to misuse this tragic incident as an alibi >for actions of raw violence, for actions against innocent people, >against their property, against the entire society and against >democracy," he said on Tuesday following a crisis meeting with >President Karolos Papoulias. > > >A car burns outside Athens University Bildunterschrift: >Groansicht des Bildes mit der Bildunterschrift: The damage >across Greece is estimated to total millions of euros > >"All the dangerous and unacceptable events that occurred because >of the emotions that followed the tragic incident cannot and will >not be tolerated," Karamanlis said. > > >The prime minister began emergency talks on Tuesday on ways to >halt the rioting that is threatening the conservative government. > > >"In these critical hours, all politicians have to isolate and >condemn those causing this chaos," Karamanlis said. > > >According to Greek media reports, the meeting is an attempt to reach >a consensus among all top politicians so that the police can end >the riots across the country with force, if necessary. > > >Rioting could have political implications > > >Riot police stand ready for action in a central part of the >northern Greek city of Thessaloniki Bildunterschrift: Groansicht >des Bildes mit der Bildunterschrift: Festively decorated Greek >streets were lit up by rioters' fires > >Political analysts have said the government's grip on power >is >weakening. Karamanlis' party only holds a one-seat majority >in parliament and was already trailing the opposition Socialists by >more than five percentage points before the riots. > > >Pasok leader Papandreou accused the conservative government >of incompetence and called for new elections. > > >"The only thing this government can offer is to resign and turn to >the people for its verdict," Papandreou told a party meeting >inside parliament. "We claim power." > > >Government promises complete investigation > > >The exact events leading up to Grigoropoulos' death still >remain unclear. The policeman who fired the deadly bullet >continued to confirm he solely fired warning shots. One of them >ricocheted and hit the >boy. But at least three eye witnesses have said on Greek >television that the policeman aimed directly at the boy and shot him. > > >Karamanlis said there would be a complete investigation to clarify >the teenager's death and the guilty party would be brought to justice. > > >"I have assured the country's president: we will not show any >mercy for those responsible," he said. > >_______________________________________________ >Mai-not mailing list >Mai-not@globalproblematique.net >http://www.globalproblematique.net/mailman/listinfo/mai-not From creuss at bluewin.ch Thu Dec 11 04:57:05 2008 From: creuss at bluewin.ch (Christoph Reuss) Date: Thu Dec 11 04:59:20 2008 Subject: [Mai-not] Greek Protests continue in the streets Message-ID: The sudden massive firestorms by "black bloc" agents are too well organized, and the trigger was probably intended, so this smells of George Soros... Chris __________________________from another forum__________________________ Greeces Soros 'Revolution'? It could be the Soros Orange Revolution version for Greece. Government embassies occupied by 10 people and tv stations by a similar number with many buildings burning overnight are indications that Athens is under attack. This does not occur by molotov cocktails as they do not have that type of power. Car lots have burnt with 40 odd cars, museums etc. This reminds one of the US invasion of Baghdad. No Embassy can be occupied by 10 people its ridiculous. They are let in to burn the Greek flag so it is flashed around the world. For the worlds mass media to promote it, something else is up. The aim is of course to bring to power the Soros founded Sinaspismos and Papandreous son the American George with the aim of getting rid of the gas deals with Russia. A popular movement involves workers and unions. They have so far been absent. Wednesday is a scheduled general strike. If the govt resigns by then and cancels the general strike it will appear that the 'mass movement' achieved a victory. In scale the mobilisations in 1991 when a teacher was killed as a result of the student occupation brought 150k on the streets. 4 people died when a building burnt and the police refused to put it out after hours. In 1985 another student was killed after the Polytechnic demo. This time originally the media stated he was an 'anarchist' but is a son of a banker and a jewellry store owner from the rich northern suburbs of Athens. Not is all what it seems. A provocation though can rebound. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ SpamWall: Mail to this addy is deleted unread unless it contains the keyword "igve". From fresch at ica.net Thu Dec 11 14:49:52 2008 From: fresch at ica.net (Fred Schneider) Date: Thu Dec 11 14:50:07 2008 Subject: [Mai-not] Fwd.: Capitalist Fools. Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20081211154225.024a5188@ica.net> This is a long article about the historical background and causes of the present "economic crisis". See full article at: Capitalist Fools By: Joseph E. Stiglitz a Nobel Prize winning economist, professor at Columbia University. http://www.opednews.com/maxwrite/linkframe.php?linkid=77569 My home page: "http://home.ica.net/~fresch/index.htm" ======================================== Fred Schneider, 905-279-7199, Fax: same, call first! #37-425 Meadows Blvd. Mississauga, ON, L4Z 1N3 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.globalproblematique.net/pipermail/mai-not/attachments/20081211/c11304c8/attachment.html From siamdave at yahoo.ca Fri Dec 12 06:18:07 2008 From: siamdave at yahoo.ca (Dave Patterson) Date: Fri Dec 12 06:18:18 2008 Subject: [Mai-not] economic suggestion Message-ID: <200812121918070875.022A44C2@smtp-adsl.totonline.net> Dear Mr Ignatieff, I am sure you are very very busy and don't get to personally see 99% of the stuff people send you, but as I think this is very important, I will try. I do this because I heard you on the Current yesterday (Thursday Dec 11) and was quite impressed with your approach to your new job, the honesty and thoughtfulness with which you spoke - a highly welcome change from the clowns currently running the Canadian government (and many from your own side of the floor don't impress much better - you could make a lot of friends, and gain a lot of respect, in Canada very quickly if you could bring some civility and relevance to question period.Take the high road. But that is not why I write). I would like to put in your way an idea you may be unfamiliar with that could go a long ways towards solving the financial problems of the country. Currently the money supply in Canada is some three trillion dollars, give or take - I base this figure on outstanding government, consumer and business debt ('cash' money, bills and coins, is a paltry 50 billion or so). This is how money is created in all modern democracies, through bank loans. And it is, to be quite blunt, financially insane for a 'sovereign' people to allow private entities to create their money supply, and charge interest on this money each year - the financial messes we have been experiencing since the mid-70s are a direct result of this practice, along with the considerable deregulation that began during the same time - the beginning of the takeover of the Washington Consensus / Milton Freidman school of economics. You may recall that the last such period of runaway financial exesses ended with the great crash of 29, after which, during the 30s, some serious constraints were placed on financial institutions concerning their money creating and manipulating activities, and until the 1970s economics were relatively stable, at which time 'we the people' seemed to forget the lessons of the great crash and allowed the governments to begin the deregulation etc once again, with the current, quite inevitable, results. This is of course a much longer and deeper story, but this is the essence of it - we allow private banks to create our money supply (with little effective oversight) and charge interest on it every year, and this is the basis of all of our financial problems. As one very graphic for instance, since the government of Canada, in the 70s, stopped using the Bank of Canada to create even a little of its own money and turned to allowing private banks to create it all and borrowing from them instead to meet their own relatively modest needs when they arose, we have run up the entirely unnecessary 'national debt' that is still a half trillion dollars, even after we have payed over a trillion dollars of interest on that debt, whilst telling Canadians there was no money for health care or infrastructure, etc, as we have paid since the 80s, and continue to pay, 30-40-50 billion per year in 'service charges' on the debt (and you can double those figures when you consider provincial/municipal debt, which the Bank of Canada should and could also be underwriting). That debt and that interest were completely unnecessary had we been using the Bank of Canada responsibly for one of the purposes for which it was created. Your advisors will no doubt tell you that governments printing money is inflationary, but this is simply not true when handled democratically and responsibly (what happens when we allow private banks to create the money is very demonstrably the door to great problems, as we see all around us today - could a government truly responsible to the people rather than the banks possibly do worse??), and perhaps it is time you stepped outside of the current financial box controlled by the bankers and Washington-Consensus-Friedman economists, and started running our economy for the benefit of We the People rather than They the Bankers/Investors. I am not sure if you want to tackle the banks or not, but this would be the key to getting control of our economy, dealing effectively with the current financial mess, and creating a stable economy for the people of Canada. I have more here - Banketeering http://www.rudemacedon.ca/banketeering.html and here The Corporate Reactionary Revolution http://www.rudemacedon.ca/greenisland/ex/gw13.html if you want a bit of light background reading someday. Light, but perhaps more useful than most of what your 'expert' advisors are giving you - as Albert noted, you cannot solve a problem with the same level of thinking that got you into it, which is what they are doing, trying to put a lid on the meltdown without changing the roots of it all. Maybe it's time for a look and think outside the box. Good luck in your new journey, Dave Patterson Prince of Songkla University Hat Yai, Thailand (Cdn, came here with CUSO 1994, find myself still here) and Green Island http://www.rudemacedon.ca/greenisland.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.globalproblematique.net/pipermail/mai-not/attachments/20081212/874eefde/attachment.html From thinker at thelakebc.ca Fri Dec 12 11:57:44 2008 From: thinker at thelakebc.ca (Ed Deak) Date: Fri Dec 12 11:54:27 2008 Subject: [Mai-not] EU and Russia Message-ID: <200812121754.mBCHsGLN018121@karma.reboot.ca> TRANSITIONS ONLINE: Europe: A ?Eurolife? for the East? by Lubos Palata 10 December 2008 The EU offers a new deal to the countries on its eastern frontier, and an implicit challenge to Russia. PRAGUE, YEREVAN, BAKU | You can?t help but notice it. Whenever people in the post-Soviet region want to emphasize a product's quality, craftsmanship, reliability or luxuriousness they affix it with the prefix ?euro.? A newly reconstructed flat where everything is in good working order is said to have gone through a ?euroremont? (read: a European-style redesign). A decent product is graced with the epithet ?eurostandard.? And when a politician wants to let it be known that he really does want to change things for the better, he describes his efforts as a ?euroreform.? In the eyes of Eastern Europeans, the European Union is a standard measure for quality ? the quality of products, of democracy, of housing, of lifestyles. Not America or Japan, but Europe. Millions of Ukrainians, Georgians, Azerbaijanis and Belarusians dream of one day living as people do in the EU. Those who can afford it actually act on those dreams. Cities like Berlin, Vienna, Karlovy Vary and Nice are full of rich Eastern Europeans who have used the millions they made in the east to move west and live the ?eurolife.? It is entirely normal to find EU flags fluttering in front of government buildings in Chisinau, Tbilisi or Kiev. Only in Minsk, where Belarus? authoritarian President Alyaksandr Lukashenka holds court, is there a lack of EU flags, but even here the arrival of the EU standard may only be a matter of time. The EU flag already hangs alongside the Moldovan standard at municipal meetings in Chisinau. Photo: Chisinau.md DOES POST-SOVIET EUROPE BELONG IN EUROPE? The problem is that the EU doesn?t want Eastern Europe. It is already having a hard time digesting the 12 new member-states ? including 10 from the post-communist regions of East-Central Europe and the Balkans ? that were added to the union in recent years. This difficulty is evident in the rejection of the European constitution and the difficulties surrounding the Lisbon agreement. The EU is not ready, in either a logistical or a strategic sense, for the unavoidable integration of the rest of the post-communist Balkans. Despite the fact that Turkey has had an association agreement with the EU for four decades, Turkish membership has been put on the back burner ? to say nothing of other interested countries like Morocco or Israel. In the current situation, with the EU experiencing major internal tension as it searches for a functional decision-making model in the aftermath of its ?big bang? enlargement into the post-communist region, there can be no serious talk of another expansion drive further eastward. Nevertheless, it is evident to most serious observers that the EU cannot completely overlook the region to its east, a fact that became all the more clear after France pushed through its (admittedly very vague) ?Mediterranean project? earlier this year. A major catalyst for the EU?s realization of the importance of its eastern frontier was the Russian invasion of Georgia and the resulting de facto annexation by Moscow of the breakaway Georgian regions of Abkhazia and South Ossetia. ?We managed to stand up to Russia,? Alain Lamassoure, the chief foreign policy adviser to President Nicolas Sarkozy, told me recently of France?s stance. The Georgian situation apparently convinced Sarkozy, whose country has the EU presidency until the end of this year, of the necessity of bringing this eastern region closer to the EU. The EU can pull this off through an agreement with Russia or, if there is no other way, against Russian wishes. The EU?s massive post-war material support for Georgia, amounting to hundreds of millions of euros, was linked to an array of agreements, such as a proposal for fast-tracking pacts on free trade zones. More importantly, this support represented a turning point in the stance of the 27-member union toward the East. The idea of an Eastern Partnership actually predates the Georgian situation. Poland and Sweden, supported by all the new post-communist member states, pushed for it as a counterweight to the Mediterranean union. But it was only after the invasion of Georgia, which led to at least a temporary cooling of relations with Russia, that the eastern project received any real support in Western Europe. Previously the Western European powers (with the notable exception of Britain) always viewed relations with Russia as more important than relations with other post-Soviet states. After Georgia, there was a significant shift. At the fall EU-Ukraine summit, Kiev was offered an association agreement of a qualitatively higher level than the proposed strategic partnership that has been the subject of renewed negotiations with Russia since November. The next logical step would be for the Eastern Partnership project to be fully launched, which would take place during the first half of 2009 when the Czech Republic holds the rotating EU presidency. ASSOCIATION WITHOUT MEMBERSHIP In a prelude to Czech involvement, the European Commission officially launched the project on 3 December in Brussels. Six post-Soviet states are involved: Armenia, Azerbaijan, Georgia, Ukraine, Belarus and Moldova. A special communiqu? issued by the commission stated that the EU has an increasing level of responsibility for its partners, that it wants to help them deal with the political and economic challenges they face, and that it wants to support them in their efforts to secure closer ties with the EU. Benita Ferrero-Waldner, the European commissioner for external relations, said recently that the time has come for opening a new chapter in the EU?s relations with its eastern neighbors. The situation in Eastern Europe and the southern Caucasus has an impact on the security and stability of the EU, she said, and the EU?s policies toward countries in those regions should be active and clear. At the same time, Brussels accompanied the announcement of this project with offers of association agreements, which it aims to sign with each of those countries provided certain conditions are met. The association agreements would be preceded by the creation of zones of free trade between the EU and the countries of the Eastern Partnership, which would not only open up the common European market to those countries? products but but would fully open those eastern markets to European exports. Association agreements are generally the first step toward full union membership. Such agreements were signed by all the post-communist states that, more than a decade later, became EU members. But the EU is not offering this promise of membership to the countries of the Eastern Partnership. Some countries, such as Ukraine or Georgia, would like to hear such a promise; others, such as Armenia or Azerbaijan, are not looking for one, at least for the time being. ?There are many other directions in which we can go,? a high-ranking Azerbaijani diplomat said recently in Baku. I heard similar words in neighboring Armenia this past September. ?Everybody is trying to be a player here: Russia, Turkey, Iran, the European Union. We have always tried to be in between and to have our own, Armenian interests,? Armenian Deputy Foreign Minister Arman Kirakosyan told me. All the countries of the Eastern Partnership face huge problems. Four of the six are in a state of war or semi-war. Moldova has no control over the so-called republic of Transdniester on its territory, Georgia is in a similar situation vis-?-vis Abkhazia and South Ossetia, and Azerbaijan does not control the enclave of Nagorno-Karabakh or an extensive area around it, which is occupied by neighboring Armenia (or, as Yerevan would have it, by the separatist Republic of Nagorno-Karabakh). The level of democracy varies from the stability of Moldova, through the relative chaos of Ukraine and the problematic Armenia and Georgia, all the way to the authoritarian calm of Azerbaijan and Belarus. ?There are worse kinds of governments than that of an enlightened monarch,? Czech Foreign Minister Karel Schwarzenberg said with respect to the Azerbaijani version of ?democracy.? Out of this group of countries, only Azerbaijan can be described as an economic success story. Belarus and Ukraine have displayed a certain economic stability, and liberal reforms have brought visible progress in Georgia. But Armenia and, especially, Moldova belong to the most economically devastated parts of the former Soviet Union. The current financial crisis and its accompanying effects on the global economy could have a terrible effect on all of these countries, including Azerbaijan, which has been successful because of its oil and natural gas industries. RUSSIA?S SPITEFUL STANCE For the Czech Republic, the official inauguration of the project with a summit in Prague this spring will be ? along with the EU-America summit to be attended by new U.S. President Barack Obama ? a high point of the country?s six-month EU presidency. But the main battle is not yet won, despite official support for the project from the European Commission and despite a deal with French President Nicholas Sarkozy that saw him agree to back the Eastern Partnership in exchange for being permitted to continue serving as the head of the Mediterranean union. There is ongoing disagreement over the most essential element: financing. Russia sees the Eastern Partnership as another project aimed at competing with its influence in the post-Soviet bloc, and it is pushing back in response. Germany, whose foreign policy is spearheaded by the extraordinarily Russia-friendly Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier, has indicated that it will not agree with tripling aid to the Eastern Partnership countries by 350 million euros in 2010-1013. Germany partially shares Russian fears that were recently expressed in an article in the Moscow daily Kommersant: ?Moscow, which has to a significant degree been the object of the EU?s eastern policy (especially under the EU presidencies of Germany and France), will be thrown overboard under the Czech EU presidency in favor of an EU external policy aimed at the East.? The Czech presidency (which will be followed by a Swedish presidency with the same outlook) will face a tough fight in this area because the Eastern Partnership truly represents a significant shift in the EU?s line on Russia. It will mean standing up to Russia in Eastern Europe. Or at least offering itself beside Russia as an alternative for the post-Soviet countries ? a choice between life according to a ?Russian standard? or a ?eurostandard.? Lubos Palata is the Central and Eastern European editor for the Czech daily Lidove noviny and a contributor to the Polish daily Gazeta Wyborcza and the German monthly German Times. Translated by Victor Gomez. ---------- Related articles: Enlargement Lite The European Union?s eastern neighbors have mastered the art of getting the union?s attention without adopting all those bothersome reforms. by Nicu Popescu 2 December 2008 Who?s Sticking to the Union Now? The EU?s most hallowed word, it seems, is little more than a sound bite for sunshine patriots. by Katerina Safarikova 27 October 2008 Poland Was Right The need is greater than ever for the EU to embrace Warsaw?s Eastern Partnership. by TOL 12 September 2008 From creuss at bluewin.ch Fri Dec 12 15:14:50 2008 From: creuss at bluewin.ch (Christoph Reuss) Date: Fri Dec 12 15:17:00 2008 Subject: [Mai-not] EU and Russia Message-ID: > Millions of Ukrainians, Georgians, Azerbaijanis > and Belarusians dream of one day living as people > do in the EU. ^^^^^ To us in CH, that's a nightmare... Cheers, Chris ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ SpamWall: Mail to this addy is deleted unread unless it contains the keyword "igve". From creuss at bluewin.ch Fri Dec 12 15:23:19 2008 From: creuss at bluewin.ch (Christoph Reuss) Date: Fri Dec 12 15:25:29 2008 Subject: [Mai-not] Ireland: 2nd Vote on EU Constitution !!! Message-ID: ...although the PM had promised there won't be a 2nd vote! http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ireland/3707164/Ireland-to- hold-a-second-referendum-on-the-Lisbon-European-Union-Treaty.html Ireland to hold a second referendum on the Lisbon European Union Treaty next year, the country's government has confirmed. By Bruno Waterfield in Brussels Last Updated: 11:00AM GMT 11 Dec 2008 Michael Martin, the Irish Foreign Minister, stressed that Ireland would get concessions in return for bowing to EU pressure hold a re-run referendum after Irish rejected the treaty in June. "Work remains to be completed with our European partners over the coming months and any second referendum is conditional on satisfactory conclusion of that work," he said. Mr Martin spoke ahead of an EU summit in Brussels on Thursday. He said he expected promises that Ireland will keep a permanent European commissioner along with legal guarantees on military neutrality, social and ethical issues. William Hague, Shadow Foreign Secretary, called on EU leaders to focus on "what really matters to the peoples of Europe: the economy, climate change and energy". "Trying to force the Lisbon Treaty down the Irish people's throats again is not only a dangerous distraction from that agenda, it is profoundly undemocratic," he said. "It is no wonder that the EU is seen as increasingly unaccountable and out of touch if it won't listen to what people are actually saying." The second referendum is expected to take place next autumn, with details of opt-outs and concession concluded in June 2009. A draft summit statement says: "Treaty to enter into force by the end of 2009. The Irish government is committed to seeking ratification of the Lisbon Treaty by the end of the term of the current Commission." The Brussels executive's term of office ends on Oct 31 2009, but the Commission President, Jose Manuel Barroso, has said there were plans to extend his mandate until the end of the year. French President Nicolas Sarkozy, who holds the EU's rotating presidency, has written to Europe's leaders to say that Brian Cowen, the Irish prime minister, will report back to other leaders "on ways to succeed in ratifying the treaty". "I shall submit to you proposals taking account of these discussions so that we can define together the elements of a solution and a common path to be followed to achieve the aim of entry into force of the Treaty," he wrote. Declan Ganley, leader of the Irish No campaign, will launch a new political party to challenge the Lisbon Treaty in European elections next year. "This is a betrayal of the Irish people. That Cowen would do a deal with the French president to disregard our vote just beggars belief," he said. Irish voters rejected the Lisbon Treaty, which resurrected the EU Constitution thrown out by French and Dutch referendums in 2005, on June 12 this year. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ SpamWall: Mail to this addy is deleted unread unless it contains the keyword "igve". From creuss at bluewin.ch Fri Dec 12 15:28:31 2008 From: creuss at bluewin.ch (Christoph Reuss) Date: Fri Dec 12 15:30:43 2008 Subject: [Mai-not] economic suggestion Message-ID: What was the suggestion?? From papadop at peak.org Fri Dec 12 20:28:32 2008 From: papadop at peak.org (MichaelP) Date: Fri Dec 12 21:19:36 2008 Subject: [Mai-not] Gagged Menezes jury damns police coverup Message-ID: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1093190/De-Menezes-jury-damns-police-cover-Officers-claims-shouting-warning-gunning-innocent-Brazilian-rejected.html?ITO=1490 Daily mail (Lonmdon) Saturday, Dec 13 2008 De Menezes jury damns police 'cover-up': Officers' claims of shouting warning before gunning down innocent Brazilian rejected * Officers did NOT shout 'armed police' before shooting * De Menezes did NOT walk towards armed officer * SIX police failings led to the innocent man's death * Jury records an open verdict * Marksmen involved won't return to frontline duties * Sir Paul Stephenson apologises for 'terrible mistake' The police marksmen who killed Jean Charles de Menezes at Stockwell Tube Station were sensationally called liars today. The jury at the inquest on the Brazilian electrician rejected their account of the shooting and sided with Tube passengers who said the officers failed to issue a warning before opening fire. They returned an open verdict, which was the most strongly critical option available to them after the judge instructed them there was insufficient evidence to rule that de Menezes was unlawfully killed by police. Jurors pointed to a catalogue of police failings in the run-up to the 27-year-old's death. Mr de Menezes was shot seven times in the head at Stockwell Underground Station in South London after police mistook him for bomber Hussain Osman. He was killed on July 22, 2005, the day after Osman and three fellow terrorists had gone on the run after trying to bomb the Tube in a follow-up attack to the July 7 London bombings which killed 52 and injured 977. The jury's verdict has led to calls from the victim's family for the marksmen involved to face a fresh investigation for alleged perjury. They called the hearing a ' whitewash' and expressed their anger that coroner Sir Michael Wright 'gagged' the jury by failing to offer the option of an 'unlawful killing' verdict. Their lawyers have already launched a High Court legal battle for a judicial review of his decision and have vowed to take their fight to the European court. The family accused the coroner of breaching human rights legislation by failing to allow an unfettered inquiry. They wanted the jury to be able to write a narrative verdict but the Sir Michael, a retired High Court judge, issued jurors with a list of questions to answer instead. However, their responses to these were hugely embarassing for the police - as they rejected almost out of hand the official version of events. Crucially, the jury failed to accept that police had been under extreme pressure on the day of the shooting as they hunted down the suicide bomb gang. They also rejected the police claim that Mr de Menezes had walked towards them before they opened fire. Their solicitor Harriet Wistrich said there had been 'evidence of perjury by certain officers' and called for the Crown Prosecution Service to re-examine the case. A senior Metropolitan Police source said yesterday: 'We are disappointed that the jury could not conclude that we were acting under significant pressure at the time of the shooting following the July 7 attacks and the failed July 21 attacks. People get a bit complacent and forget what it was like in London then.' Tonight, in a further twist, the two marksmen involved said they would not return to front-line duties. The pair, though still at work, have taken a back-room role since the start of the inquest. The head of the Yard's anti-terror command at the time, former Assistant Commissioner Andy Hayman, said that terrorists would 'exploit' the 'lack of confidence' in police as a result of the findings. Mr de Menezes's relatives, who have ruled out a private prosecution, will be in line for a compensation payout. This could top 1million. To date, the family have been offered 15,000 from the Met for funeral and repatriation costs. Miss Wistrich described the Met's policy on suspected suicide bombers as 'not fit for purpose'. At the inquest, officers themselves admitted that they had never imagined dealing with failed suicide bombers. Asad Rehman, of the Justice4Jean Campaign, said: 'The jury clearly said that the police lied, that Jean was completely innocent, and that from the time Jean entered Stockwell tube station he was doomed to be shot without warning. 'It is clear that if they were given the option of an unlawful killing verdict they would have reached an unlawful killing verdict.' No officer has ever been held accountable for the shooting and while the jury's verdict points the finger at the firearms officers who killed him, pressure remains on the officer in charge of the operation, Cressida Dick. Mr de Menezes's mother Maria, who said she felt 'reborn' by the verdict, called for the resignation of Deputy Assistant Commissioner Dick - who oversaw a chaotic and confused police control room. Miss Dick has managed to escape censure despite a litany of failings that day. She told the inquest that she did nothing wrong and said a similar tragedy could happen again. The two firearms officers who shot Mr de Menezes said his actions led them to conclude that he was a suicide bomber who was about to blow himself up. They claimed that he came towards them aggressively and 'closed them down' despite one officer shouting 'armed police'. One marksman, codenamed C12, said he would not have opened fire if Mr de Menezes had not behaved as he did. However, the jury sided with the recollections of Tube passengers who said that C12 did not shout 'armed police' and that Mr de Menezes did not walk towards the officers. The conflicting evidence of police and passengers raises serious questions about the firearms officers' right to confer with each other before writing up their statements together. The marksmen also wrote their accounts after they discovered that they had killed an innocent man, rather than in the immediate aftermath of the shooting. The Association of Chief Police Officers have since changed their guidelines so that armed police do not confer in such a way. de Menezes The three-month-long inquest followed 300,000 police watchdog investigation and 1million trial at which the Metropolitan police were found guilty of health and safety failings and fined 175,000. Costs for the inquest paid for by the taxpayer are expected to spiral to 8million. The family's primary target, former Scotland Yard chief Sir Ian Blair, avoided taking the rap by leaving his job on December 1. He was lambasted by the Independent Police Complaints Commission for blocking their investigation of the shooting for five days. Mr de Menezes's mother Maria and her eldest son Giovani at the inquest In his place, Acting Commissioner Paul Stephenson issued a full and frank apology. In a statement outside the court, he said: 'For somebody to lose their life in such circumstances is something that the Metropolitan Police Service deeply regrets. In the face of enormous challenges faced by officers on that day we made a most terrible mistake. I am sorry.' A CPS spokesman said it will now 'decide whether we need to review our decision' - although a source said a perjury investigation was highly unlikely. Friends and family members of Jean Charles de Menezes staged a T-shirt protest today as they left the inquest into his death Friends and family members of Jean Charles de Menezes staged a T-shirt protest last week as they left the inquest into his death Why 'unlawful' verdict was vetoed The coroner Sir Michael Wright ruled out an unlawful killing verdict before the jury retired because he said it was 'not justified'. The de Menezes family wanted the verdict offered to the jury with two options - that the two police marksmen who shot him dead had effectively committed murder or manslaughter or that three senior officers, Cressida Dick, John McDowall and tactical firearms adviser Vince Esposito, were guilty of manslaughter by gross negligence. An inquest needs the same standard of proof as a criminal trial for the jury to find a verdict, and the coroner ruled there was insufficient evidence to offer the jury an unlawful killing verdict. Unlike a criminal trial, it is not the role of an inquest to apportion criminal and civil blame to an individual. To find manslaughter by gross negligence, the coroner said that individuals-must have failed in their duty. But despite a catalogue of failings by police, the coroner ruled that no specific officers behaved in a way that was grossly negligent. By ruling out unlawful killing, he also found that the officers who shot dead Mr de Menezes did not intentionally shoot dead an innocent man. He offered the jury a lawful killing verdict, if the jury thought the firearms officers 'honestly believed that Mr de Menezes represented an immediate mortal danger to them and the other people around them' and the use of force was 'reasonable in the circumstances'. He offered them an open verdict, if the jury did not believe that the two officers did honestly hold that belief or that the force used was reasonable. He gave them a list of questions to answer about alleged police failures but would not let them give their own views beyond the questionnaire. The woman who gave the orders / Cressida Dick missed the start of the strategy meeting held before the shooting The family of Jean Charles de Menezes have demanded the resignation of Cressida Dick, as the officer in charge of the operation which led to his death. But senior sources at Scotland Yard said yesterday that she was expected to cling on to her job. Her supporters point to the health-and-safety case at the Old Bailey last year when the jury who found her force guilty of failings over the shooting gave a rider to their verdict, exonerating her of blame. However, the inquest heard that Miss Dick went to the wrong room and missed the start of an important meeting of senior police officers to discuss strategy on the morning of the shooting. And the control room she ran at Scotland Yard was 'very noisy and quite chaotic'. During the inquest, the senior officer choked back tears in the witness box as she said she thought about the death of Mr de Menezes every day. She denied that she gave an order that Mr de Menezes must be stopped from getting on to a train at Stockwell 'at all costs' and also denied instructing the firearms teams to use lethal force to stop him. Miss Dick told the inquest that she ordered armed officers to 'stop him' from getting on the Tube. She said: 'Stop is a phrase we all use all the time to detain, either to talk to someone or to arrest them. I was asking for what you might call a conventional - albeit aware of the risks - challenge from the firearms officers.' Miss Dick described Mr de Menezes as 'the victim of some terrible and extraordinary circumstances' and said she did not think any officer did 'anything wrong or unreasonable'. Born and bred in Oxford, 47-year-old Miss Dick studied at the city's university before a spell as an accountant. She joined the Met as a constable in 1983 and went on to be promoted on the fast-track scheme for high flyers. In 1995, she joined Thames Valley Police as a superintendent and later took a career break to complete a masters degree in criminology. She returned to the Met in 2001 as a commander and headed Operation Trident, which deals with serious crime in the black community. Just over a year after the shooting of Mr de Menezes, she was promoted from Commander to Deputy Assistant Commissioner - a role she took on in April. The officer is now in charge of the royalty and diplomatic protection. She told the inquest that she remains a firearms commander and has run operations since Mr de Menezes's death. Sir Paul Stephenson apologised after the inquest Acting Metropolitan Police Commissioner Sir Paul Stephenson - forced to issue a grovelling apology for the July 2005 shooting - is enduring a baptism of fire in his first month in control of Scotland Yard. First, there was the furore over the arrest of Tory MP Damian Green, a row which continues to rage two weeks after the Palace of Westminster raid. Now there is the damning verdict of the jury over Jean Charles de Menezes. All of this is terrible timing for Sir Paul, who formally applied to be gaffe-prone Sir Ian Blair's successor as the Green debacle took hold. Thirteen months ago, Sir Ian Blair described the case as a 'tragedy' and said he expressed his 'deep regrets' for the death. Today Sir Paul seemed to go one stage further by saying simply: 'I am sorry.' The Lancashire-born officer was credited with being the power behind the throne in Sir Ian's final months. While Blair was fighting fires over a series of damaging crises, Sir Paul won admirers for running the force adeptly. But now he is learning why his outgoing boss warned that the next Commissioner would not just have to have 'copper-bottomed trousers but a copper-bottomed suit'. The Metropolitan Police remains under huge scrutiny. Before Mr Green was arrested over allegations he had abused his office by procuring Government leaks from a mole, Sir Paul was widely thought to be the shoo-in candidate for the job. Now many think his chances are gone. From siamdave at yahoo.ca Fri Dec 12 21:26:40 2008 From: siamdave at yahoo.ca (Dave Patterson) Date: Fri Dec 12 21:26:47 2008 Subject: [Mai-not] economic suggestion In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200812131026400750.0031568D@smtp-adsl.totonline.net> I was hoping our new academic Lib leader might have a look at how money is created and challenge the banks, thus committing political suicide. I don't hold out much hope. Actually that was facetious, I heard him on an interview a couple of days ago and he sounded very good. But if he won't challenge the banks, then he is just another Obama, somebody to sell the public who are sick to the eyeballs of slimeball politicians and ready to bring the system down, a good talking, good looking leader who won't actually do anything other than look good and talk good. Or maybe I hope for too much, and he'll be another Clinton, looking and talking good whilst taking the corporate agenda forward. (that would be where my money would be) *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 08-12-12 at 10:28 PM creuss@bluewin.ch wrote: >What was the suggestion?? > > > >_______________________________________________ >Mai-not mailing list >Mai-not@globalproblematique.net >http://www.globalproblematique.net/mailman/listinfo/mai-not > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.9.17/1845 - Release Date: 12/12/2551 9:02 From diongiles1 at aapt.net.au Fri Dec 12 22:12:38 2008 From: diongiles1 at aapt.net.au (Dion Giles) Date: Fri Dec 12 22:12:43 2008 Subject: [Mai-not] Gagged Menezes jury damns police coverup In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20081213041239.858ACF5FD@fep08.mfe.bur.connect.com.au> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.globalproblematique.net/pipermail/mai-not/attachments/20081213/a65483d5/attachment.html From diongiles1 at aapt.net.au Fri Dec 12 22:23:55 2008 From: diongiles1 at aapt.net.au (Dion Giles) Date: Fri Dec 12 22:25:40 2008 Subject: [Mai-not] economic suggestion In-Reply-To: <200812131026400750.0031568D@smtp-adsl.totonline.net> References: <200812131026400750.0031568D@smtp-adsl.totonline.net> Message-ID: <20081213042538.237BEF7A4@fep04.mfe.bur.connect.com.au> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.globalproblematique.net/pipermail/mai-not/attachments/20081213/d4c6e33c/attachment.html From glparramatta at greenleft.org.au Fri Dec 12 22:17:14 2008 From: glparramatta at greenleft.org.au (glparramatta) Date: Fri Dec 12 22:31:19 2008 Subject: [Mai-not] Down with the government of murderers! Greek left on the murder of Alexis Grigoropoulos (+ video; updated Dec. 12) | Links Message-ID: <4943374A.7090901@greenleft.org.au> Links International Journal of Socialist Renewal is publishing a number of declarations, statements, calls and articles from Greek left organisations in response to the assassination by Greek police of Alexis Grigoropoulos. Please keep in mind that the translations may be less than perfect, but due to the urgency of the situation they have been posted as is. We?ll add more as we receive them. Complete at http://links.org.au/node/790 Subscribe free to /Links - International Journal of Socialist Renewal/ - at http://www.feedblitz.com/f/?Sub=343373 From thinker at thelakebc.ca Fri Dec 12 22:48:45 2008 From: thinker at thelakebc.ca (Ed Deak) Date: Fri Dec 12 22:45:17 2008 Subject: [Mai-not] Gagged Menezes jury damns police coverup In-Reply-To: <20081213041239.858ACF5FD@fep08.mfe.bur.connect.com.au> References: <20081213041239.858ACF5FD@fep08.mfe.bur.connect.com.au> Message-ID: <200812130445.mBD4j9MK031793@karma.reboot.ca> When we went into combat , the guys were carrying 80 shells and we, the marksmen, 140, of which I fired only a handful, while the others were popping them away all over the place. Anybody who fires 7 shots into a head is not a marksman, or even a human being, but a horse's ass. Cheers, Ed. At 08:12 PM 12/12/2008, you wrote: >> * Marksmen involved won't return to frontline duties >> >>The police marksmen who killed Jean Charles de Menezes at >>Stockwell Tube Station were sensationally called liars today. > > >Where the hell did the Daily Mail get the super-PC term >"marksmen"? I'm an indifferent shot, not a marksman by any means, >yet even I would be capable of holding a gun to a water-melon and >firing seven rounds into it. Not, mind, the head of a >prisoner. Takes a special kind of vileness to do that, but not >marksmanship. Maybe the "marksmen" should be returned to front-line >duty - in Afghanistan where the target can defend himself and rid >the world of those particular executioners. > >Dion Giles >Western Australia >_______________________________________________ >Mai-not mailing list >Mai-not@globalproblematique.net >http://www.globalproblematique.net/mailman/listinfo/mai-not > > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.9.17/1846 - Release Date: >12/12/2008 6:59 PM From siamdave at yahoo.ca Fri Dec 12 23:40:13 2008 From: siamdave at yahoo.ca (Dave Patterson) Date: Fri Dec 12 23:40:50 2008 Subject: [Mai-not] economic suggestion In-Reply-To: <20081213042538.237BEF7A4@fep04.mfe.bur.connect.com.au> References: <200812131026400750.0031568D@smtp-adsl.totonline.net> <20081213042538.237BEF7A4@fep04.mfe.bur.connect.com.au> Message-ID: <200812131240130937.00AB9C11@smtp-adsl.totonline.net> I suspect you are right, that a majority, if not actually waiting for something they don't know about, would be very open to the truth of what the banks really do and how taking democratic control of our money supply would solve so many problems - the problem is, for the public to get a chance to hear a political leader challenge the banks, that would rely on an honest mainstream media willing to give that leader a chance and open the debate, and I suspect the odds of that would be even lower than the backroom boys allowing the coronation of a leader who would do such an unwise thing. *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 08-12-13 at 1:23 PM Dion Giles wrote: WOULD it be political suicide to take on the banks? Might just be that the majority are waiting for a honest and articulate lead. Dion Giles Western Australia At 12:26 13/12/2008, Dave wrote: I was hoping our new academic Lib leader might have a look at how money is created and challenge the banks, thus committing political suicide. I don't hold out much hope. Actually that was facetious, I heard him on an interview a couple of days ago and he sounded very good. But if he won't challenge the banks, then he is just another Obama, somebody to sell the public who are sick to the eyeballs of slimeball politicians and ready to bring the system down, a good talking, good looking leader who won't actually do anything other than look good and talk good. Or maybe I hope for too much, and he'll be another Clinton, looking and talking good whilst taking the corporate agenda forward. (that would be where my money would be) *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 08-12-12 at 10:28 PM creuss@bluewin.ch wrote: >What was the suggestion?? > > > >_______________________________________________ >Mai-not mailing list >Mai-not@globalproblematique.net > http://www.globalproblematique.net/mailman/listinfo/mai-not > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.9.17/1845 - Release Date: 12/12/2551 9:02 _______________________________________________ Mai-not mailing list Mai-not@globalproblematique.net http://www.globalproblematique.net/mailman/listinfo/mai-not -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.globalproblematique.net/pipermail/mai-not/attachments/20081213/a056d85f/attachment.html From siamdave at yahoo.ca Fri Dec 12 23:41:45 2008 From: siamdave at yahoo.ca (Dave Patterson) Date: Fri Dec 12 23:42:27 2008 Subject: [Mai-not] Gagged Menezes jury damns police coverup In-Reply-To: <200812130445.mBD4j9MK031793@karma.reboot.ca> References: <20081213041239.858ACF5FD@fep08.mfe.bur.connect.com.au> <200812130445.mBD4j9MK031793@karma.reboot.ca> Message-ID: <200812131241450375.00AD013E@smtp-adsl.totonline.net> Ed you're being much too kind in calling these orcs 'horse's ass' - those who willingly enforce an evil empire are just as evil as their rulers. *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 08-12-12 at 8:48 PM Ed Deak wrote: >When we went into combat , the guys were carrying 80 shells and we, >the marksmen, 140, of which I fired only a handful, while the others >were popping them away all over the place. > >Anybody who fires 7 shots into a head is not a marksman, or even a >human being, but a horse's ass. > >Cheers, Ed. > > > >At 08:12 PM 12/12/2008, you wrote: > >>> * Marksmen involved won't return to frontline duties >>> >>>The police marksmen who killed Jean Charles de Menezes at >>>Stockwell Tube Station were sensationally called liars today. >> >> >>Where the hell did the Daily Mail get the super-PC term >>"marksmen"? I'm an indifferent shot, not a marksman by any means, >>yet even I would be capable of holding a gun to a water-melon and >>firing seven rounds into it. Not, mind, the head of a >>prisoner. Takes a special kind of vileness to do that, but not >>marksmanship. Maybe the "marksmen" should be returned to front-line >>duty - in Afghanistan where the target can defend himself and rid >>the world of those particular executioners. >> >>Dion Giles >>Western Australia >>_______________________________________________ >>Mai-not mailing list >>Mai-not@globalproblematique.net >>http://www.globalproblematique.net/mailman/listinfo/mai-not >> >> >>No virus found in this incoming message. >>Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >>Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.9.17/1846 - Release Date: >>12/12/2008 6:59 PM > >_______________________________________________ >Mai-not mailing list >Mai-not@globalproblematique.net >http://www.globalproblematique.net/mailman/listinfo/mai-not > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.9.17/1846 - Release Date: 12/12/2551 18:59 From ptuffley at xtra.co.nz Sat Dec 13 01:56:22 2008 From: ptuffley at xtra.co.nz (Peter Tuffley) Date: Sat Dec 13 01:57:26 2008 Subject: [Mai-not] Gagged Menezes jury damns police coverup In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <13A7A266-B659-4FF9-8ED0-9D75442106FD@xtra.co.nz> If ever there was a case for vigilante justice on the perpertrators ? and on the coroner who blatantly shielded them ? this might be it. Peter > > http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1093190/De-Menezes-jury-damns-police-cover-Officers-claims-shouting-warning-gunning-innocent-Brazilian-rejected.html?ITO=1490 > > > Daily mail (Lonmdon) Saturday, Dec 13 2008 > > > De Menezes jury damns police 'cover-up': Officers' claims of > shouting warning before gunning down innocent Brazilian rejected > > > * Officers did NOT shout 'armed police' before shooting > * De Menezes did NOT walk towards armed officer > * SIX police failings led to the innocent man's death > * Jury records an open verdict > * Marksmen involved won't return to frontline duties > * Sir Paul Stephenson apologises for 'terrible mistake' > > The police marksmen who killed Jean Charles de Menezes at > Stockwell Tube Station were sensationally called liars today. > > The jury at the inquest on the Brazilian electrician rejected > their account of the shooting and sided with Tube passengers who > said the officers failed to issue a warning before opening fire. > > They returned an open verdict, which was the most strongly > critical option available to them after the judge instructed > them there was insufficient evidence to rule that de Menezes was > unlawfully killed by police. > > Jurors pointed to a catalogue of police failings in the run-up to > the 27-year-old's death. > > Mr de Menezes was shot seven times in the head at > Stockwell Underground Station in South London after police > mistook him for bomber Hussain Osman. > > He was killed on July 22, 2005, the day after Osman and three > fellow terrorists had gone on the run after trying to bomb the > Tube in a follow-up attack to the July 7 London bombings which > killed 52 and injured 977. > > The jury's verdict has led to calls from the victim's family for > the marksmen involved to face a fresh investigation for alleged > perjury. They called the hearing a ' whitewash' and expressed their > anger that coroner Sir Michael Wright 'gagged' the jury by failing > to offer the option of an 'unlawful killing' verdict. > > Their lawyers have already launched a High Court legal battle for > a judicial review of his decision and have vowed to take their > fight to the European court. The family accused the coroner of > breaching human rights legislation by failing to allow an unfettered > inquiry. > > > They wanted the jury to be able to write a narrative verdict but > the Sir Michael, a retired High Court judge, issued jurors with a > list of questions to answer instead. > > However, their responses to these were hugely embarassing for > the police - as they rejected almost out of hand the official > version of events. > > Crucially, the jury failed to accept that police had been > under extreme pressure on the day of the shooting as they hunted > down the suicide bomb gang. > > They also rejected the police claim that Mr de Menezes had > walked towards them before they opened fire. > > Their solicitor Harriet Wistrich said there had been 'evidence > of perjury by certain officers' and called for the Crown > Prosecution Service to re-examine the case. > > A senior Metropolitan Police source said yesterday: 'We > are disappointed that the jury could not conclude that we were > acting under significant pressure at the time of the shooting > following the July 7 attacks and the failed July 21 attacks. > People get a bit complacent and forget what it was like in London > then.' > > Tonight, in a further twist, the two marksmen involved said they > would not return to front-line duties. The pair, though still at > work, have taken a back-room role since the start of the inquest. > > The head of the Yard's anti-terror command at the time, > former Assistant Commissioner Andy Hayman, said that > terrorists would 'exploit' the 'lack of confidence' in > police as a result of the findings. > > Mr de Menezes's relatives, who have ruled out a private > prosecution, will be in line for a compensation payout. This could > top 1million. To date, the family have been offered 15,000 from the > Met for funeral and repatriation costs. > > Miss Wistrich described the Met's policy on suspected suicide > bombers as 'not fit for purpose'. > > At the inquest, officers themselves admitted that they had > never imagined dealing with failed suicide bombers. > > Asad Rehman, of the Justice4Jean Campaign, said: 'The jury > clearly said that the police lied, that Jean was completely > innocent, and that from the time Jean entered Stockwell tube > station he was doomed to be shot without warning. > > 'It is clear that if they were given the option of an unlawful > killing verdict they would have reached an unlawful killing verdict.' > > No officer has ever been held accountable for the shooting and > while the jury's verdict points the finger at the firearms > officers who killed him, pressure remains on the officer in > charge of the operation, Cressida Dick. > > Mr de Menezes's mother Maria, who said she felt 'reborn' by > the verdict, called for the resignation of Deputy Assistant > Commissioner Dick - who oversaw a chaotic and confused police > control room. > > Miss Dick has managed to escape censure despite a litany of > failings that day. She told the inquest that she did nothing wrong > and said a similar tragedy could happen again. > > The two firearms officers who shot Mr de Menezes said his actions > led them to conclude that he was a suicide bomber who was about > to blow himself up. They claimed that he came towards them > aggressively and 'closed them down' despite one officer shouting > 'armed police'. > > One marksman, codenamed C12, said he would not have opened fire if > Mr de Menezes had not behaved as he did. > > However, the jury sided with the recollections of Tube passengers > who said that C12 did not shout 'armed police' and that Mr de > Menezes did not walk towards the officers. > > The conflicting evidence of police and passengers raises > serious questions about the firearms officers' right to confer with > each other before writing up their statements together. The > marksmen also wrote their accounts after they discovered that they > had killed an innocent man, rather than in the immediate aftermath > of the shooting. > > The Association of Chief Police Officers have since changed > their guidelines so that armed police do not confer in such a way. > de Menezes > > The three-month-long inquest followed 300,000 police > watchdog investigation and 1million trial at which the > Metropolitan police were found guilty of health and safety > failings and fined 175,000. Costs for the inquest paid for by the > taxpayer are expected to spiral to 8million. > > The family's primary target, former Scotland Yard chief Sir Ian > Blair, avoided taking the rap by leaving his job on December > 1. He was lambasted by the Independent Police Complaints Commission > for blocking their investigation of the shooting for five days. > > > Mr de Menezes's mother Maria and her eldest son Giovani at the inquest > > In his place, Acting Commissioner Paul Stephenson issued a full > and frank apology. > > In a statement outside the court, he said: 'For somebody to lose > their life in such circumstances is something that the > Metropolitan Police Service deeply regrets. In the face of > enormous challenges faced by officers on that day we made a most > terrible mistake. I am sorry.' > > A CPS spokesman said it will now 'decide whether we need to review > our decision' - although a source said a perjury > investigation was highly unlikely. > > Friends and family members of Jean Charles de Menezes staged a T- > shirt protest today as they left the inquest into his death > > Friends and family members of Jean Charles de Menezes staged a T- > shirt protest last week as they left the inquest into his death > > Why 'unlawful' verdict was vetoed > > The coroner Sir Michael Wright ruled out an unlawful killing > verdict before the jury retired because he said it was 'not > justified'. > > The de Menezes family wanted the verdict offered to the jury with > two options - that the two police marksmen who shot him > dead had effectively committed murder or manslaughter or that > three senior officers, Cressida Dick, John McDowall and tactical > firearms adviser Vince Esposito, were guilty of manslaughter by > gross negligence. > > An inquest needs the same standard of proof as a criminal trial > for the jury to find a verdict, and the coroner ruled > there was insufficient evidence to offer the jury an unlawful > killing verdict. > > Unlike a criminal trial, it is not the role of an inquest to > apportion criminal and civil blame to an individual. > > To find manslaughter by gross negligence, the coroner said > that individuals-must have failed in their duty. But despite a > catalogue of failings by police, the coroner ruled that no > specific officers behaved in a way that was grossly negligent. > > By ruling out unlawful killing, he also found that the officers > who shot dead Mr de Menezes did not intentionally shoot dead an > innocent man. > > He offered the jury a lawful killing verdict, if the jury thought > the firearms officers 'honestly believed that Mr de Menezes > represented an immediate mortal danger to them and the other people > around them' and the use of force was 'reasonable in the > circumstances'. > > He offered them an open verdict, if the jury did not believe that > the two officers did honestly hold that belief or that the force > used was reasonable. He gave them a list of questions to answer > about alleged police failures but would not let them give their own > views beyond the questionnaire. > > The woman who gave the orders / Cressida Dick missed the start of > the strategy meeting held before the shooting > > The family of Jean Charles de Menezes have demanded the resignation > of Cressida Dick, as the officer in charge of the operation which > led to his death. > > But senior sources at Scotland Yard said yesterday that she > was expected to cling on to her job. > > Her supporters point to the health-and-safety case at the Old > Bailey last year when the jury who found her force guilty of > failings over the shooting gave a rider to their verdict, > exonerating her of blame. > > However, the inquest heard that Miss Dick went to the wrong room > and missed the start of an important meeting of senior police > officers to discuss strategy on the morning of the shooting. > > And the control room she ran at Scotland Yard was 'very noisy > and quite chaotic'. > > During the inquest, the senior officer choked back tears in > the witness box as she said she thought about the death of Mr de > Menezes every day. > > She denied that she gave an order that Mr de Menezes must be > stopped from getting on to a train at Stockwell 'at all costs' and > also denied instructing the firearms teams to use lethal force to > stop him. > > Miss Dick told the inquest that she ordered armed officers to > 'stop him' from getting on the Tube. She said: 'Stop is a phrase we > all use all the time to detain, either to talk to someone or to > arrest them. I was asking for what you might call a conventional - > albeit aware of the risks - challenge from the firearms officers.' > > Miss Dick described Mr de Menezes as 'the victim of some terrible > and extraordinary circumstances' and said she did not think any > officer did 'anything wrong or unreasonable'. > > Born and bred in Oxford, 47-year-old Miss Dick studied at the > city's university before a spell as an accountant. She joined the > Met as a constable in 1983 and went on to be promoted on the fast- > track scheme for high flyers. > > In 1995, she joined Thames Valley Police as a superintendent and > later took a career break to complete a masters degree in criminology. > > She returned to the Met in 2001 as a commander and headed > Operation Trident, which deals with serious crime in the black > community. > > Just over a year after the shooting of Mr de Menezes, she was > promoted from Commander to Deputy Assistant Commissioner - a role > she took on in April. > > The officer is now in charge of the royalty and diplomatic > protection. She told the inquest that she remains a firearms > commander and has run operations since Mr de Menezes's death. > > Sir Paul Stephenson apologised after the inquest > > Acting Metropolitan Police Commissioner Sir Paul Stephenson - > forced to issue a grovelling apology for the July 2005 shooting - is > enduring a baptism of fire in his first month in control of Scotland > Yard. > > First, there was the furore over the arrest of Tory MP Damian Green, > a row which continues to rage two weeks after the Palace of > Westminster raid. > > Now there is the damning verdict of the jury over Jean Charles > de Menezes. All of this is terrible timing for Sir Paul, who > formally applied to be gaffe-prone Sir Ian Blair's successor > as the Green debacle took hold. Thirteen months ago, Sir Ian > Blair described the case as a 'tragedy' and said he expressed his > 'deep regrets' for the death. > > Today Sir Paul seemed to go one stage further by saying simply: 'I > am sorry.' > > The Lancashire-born officer was credited with being the power > behind the throne in Sir Ian's final months. While Blair was > fighting fires over a series of damaging crises, Sir Paul won > admirers for running the force adeptly. > > But now he is learning why his outgoing boss warned that the > next Commissioner would not just have to have 'copper-bottomed > trousers but a copper-bottomed suit'. > > The Metropolitan Police remains under huge scrutiny. Before Mr > Green was arrested over allegations he had abused his office by > procuring Government leaks from a mole, Sir Paul was widely > thought to be the shoo-in candidate for the job. Now many think his > chances are gone. > > > _______________________________________________ > Mai-not mailing list > Mai-not@globalproblematique.net > http://www.globalproblematique.net/mailman/listinfo/mai-not From creuss at bluewin.ch Sat Dec 13 05:28:37 2008 From: creuss at bluewin.ch (Christoph Reuss) Date: Sat Dec 13 05:30:51 2008 Subject: [Mai-not] economic suggestion Message-ID: > I was hoping our new academic Lib leader might have a look at how money > is created and challenge the banks, thus committing political suicide. Again: What is the suggestion to DO economically? Chris From siamdave at yahoo.ca Sat Dec 13 07:02:13 2008 From: siamdave at yahoo.ca (Dave Patterson) Date: Sat Dec 13 07:02:21 2008 Subject: [Mai-not] economic suggestion In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200812132002130343.0240437F@smtp-adsl.totonline.net> Remove control of our money supply from private hands and place it under democratic control. Create a debt-free money supply. This would, of course, involve much else starting with education and democracy, but that is the basic suggestion. *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 08-12-13 at 12:28 PM creuss@bluewin.ch wrote: >> I was hoping our new academic Lib leader might have a look at how money >> is created and challenge the banks, thus committing political suicide. > >Again: What is the suggestion to DO economically? > >Chris > > > >_______________________________________________ >Mai-not mailing list >Mai-not@globalproblematique.net >http://www.globalproblematique.net/mailman/listinfo/mai-not > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.9.17/1846 - Release Date: 12/12/2551 18:59 From diongiles1 at aapt.net.au Sat Dec 13 08:16:35 2008 From: diongiles1 at aapt.net.au (Dion Giles) Date: Sat Dec 13 08:16:47 2008 Subject: [Mai-not] economic suggestion In-Reply-To: <200812132002130343.0240437F@smtp-adsl.totonline.net> References: <200812132002130343.0240437F@smtp-adsl.totonline.net> Message-ID: <20081213141635.EC336127D5@fep07.mfe.bur.connect.com.au> Need a political programme to that effect, accompanied by a succinct chronology of when banks in Canada were given that power over the money supply alongside the government bank (Bank of Canada??), when the remaining public power was transferred to the greedies, what pollies were responsible for these decisions and who inspired them, and the unfolding of the consequences of the changes. In particular, graphs showing the climb in public debt. In other words voters are being asked only to undo damage done quite recently, not (for now) abolishing the capitalist system. After all, Canada must have been a capitalist country before these depredations occurred. How is the political programme delivered to the voters, given that decisive segments of the news media are committed to the neoliberal changes that have caused the economic chaos? There are already excellent organisations and think tanks capable of helping the NDP to refine policy and produce understandable messages. Once this is done there are many ways to sidestep the censorship - including even TV ands newspaper ads if funds can be built up. Dion Giles Western Australia At 22:02 13/12/2008, Dave Patterson wrote: >Remove control of our money supply from private hands and place it >under democratic control. Create a debt-free money supply. This >would, of course, involve much else starting with education and >democracy, but that is the basic suggestion. > >*********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** > >On 08-12-13 at 12:28 PM creuss@bluewin.ch wrote: > > >> I was hoping our new academic Lib leader might have a look at how money > >> is created and challenge the banks, thus committing political suicide. > > > >Again: What is the suggestion to DO economically? > > > >Chris > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >Mai-not mailing list > >Mai-not@globalproblematique.net > >http://www.globalproblematique.net/mailman/listinfo/mai-not > > > >No virus found in this incoming message. > >Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > >Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.9.17/1846 - Release Date: > 12/12/2551 18:59 > > > > >_______________________________________________ >Mai-not mailing list >Mai-not@globalproblematique.net >http://www.globalproblematique.net/mailman/listinfo/mai-not From siamdave at yahoo.ca Sat Dec 13 09:27:04 2008 From: siamdave at yahoo.ca (Dave Patterson) Date: Sat Dec 13 09:27:11 2008 Subject: [Mai-not] economic suggestion In-Reply-To: <20081213141635.EC336127D5@fep07.mfe.bur.connect.com.au> References: <200812132002130343.0240437F@smtp-adsl.totonline.net> <20081213141635.EC336127D5@fep07.mfe.bur.connect.com.au> Message-ID: <200812132227040250.02C4E059@smtp-adsl.totonline.net> Are you suggesting inter alia or something that there is democratic rather than bank control of the money supply in Australia, with the complicity of course of the politicians and media? Do you have no 'national debt' there siphoning off huge amounts of tax money every year? *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 08-12-13 at 11:16 PM Dion Giles wrote: >Need a political programme to that effect, accompanied by a succinct >chronology of when banks in Canada were given that power over the >money supply alongside the government bank (Bank of Canada??), when >the remaining public power was transferred to the greedies, what >pollies were responsible for these decisions and who inspired them, >and the unfolding of the consequences of the changes. In particular, >graphs showing the climb in public debt. In other words voters are >being asked only to undo damage done quite recently, not (for now) >abolishing the capitalist system. After all, Canada must have been a >capitalist country before these depredations occurred. > >How is the political programme delivered to the voters, given that >decisive segments of the news media are committed to the neoliberal >changes that have caused the economic chaos? There are already >excellent organisations and think tanks capable of helping the NDP to >refine policy and produce understandable messages. Once this is done >there are many ways to sidestep the censorship - including even TV >ands newspaper ads if funds can be built up. > >Dion Giles >Western Australia > >At 22:02 13/12/2008, Dave Patterson wrote: > >>Remove control of our money supply from private hands and place it >>under democratic control. Create a debt-free money supply. This >>would, of course, involve much else starting with education and >>democracy, but that is the basic suggestion. >> >>*********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** >> >>On 08-12-13 at 12:28 PM creuss@bluewin.ch wrote: >> >> >> I was hoping our new academic Lib leader might have a look at how >money >> >> is created and challenge the banks, thus committing political suicide. >> > >> >Again: What is the suggestion to DO economically? >> > >> >Chris >> > >> > >> > >> >_______________________________________________ >> >Mai-not mailing list >> >Mai-not@globalproblematique.net >> >http://www.globalproblematique.net/mailman/listinfo/mai-not >> > >> >No virus found in this incoming message. >> >Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >> >Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.9.17/1846 - Release Date: >> 12/12/2551 18:59 >> >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Mai-not mailing list >>Mai-not@globalproblematique.net >>http://www.globalproblematique.net/mailman/listinfo/mai-not > > >_______________________________________________ >Mai-not mailing list >Mai-not@globalproblematique.net >http://www.globalproblematique.net/mailman/listinfo/mai-not > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.9.17/1846 - Release Date: 12/12/2551 18:59 From thinker at thelakebc.ca Sat Dec 13 09:38:03 2008 From: thinker at thelakebc.ca (Ed Deak) Date: Sat Dec 13 09:34:37 2008 Subject: [Mai-not] Gagged Menezes jury damns police coverup In-Reply-To: <200812131241450375.00AD013E@smtp-adsl.totonline.net> References: <20081213041239.858ACF5FD@fep08.mfe.bur.connect.com.au> <200812130445.mBD4j9MK031793@karma.reboot.ca> <200812131241450375.00AD013E@smtp-adsl.totonline.net> Message-ID: <200812131534.mBDFYVKP010163@karma.reboot.ca> Dave, We have exactly the same situation going around here, with the Taser killing of the Polish guy in Vancouver airport over a year ago. The movie shows that he was distraught and behaved erratically, after having wandered around the area for 10 hours, without anybody even trying to communicate with him, while his mother was waiting for him, somewhere else, also misdirected. 4 cops walked in and tried to talk to him, but he spoke no English. He wasn't threatening anybody, and as he was walking away, they hit him with 5 shots of 50,000 volts. He fell down and died. Now it was decided by the Attorney General's office, that he died of heart failure and the effects of years of alcoholism, therefore no charges will be laid against the goons who Tasered him. In short, we live in a globalized police state I was born and grew up in, in a police family, under fascism. Cheers, Ed, At 09:41 PM 12/12/2008, you wrote: >Ed you're being much too kind in calling these orcs 'horse's ass' - >those who willingly enforce an evil empire are just as evil as their rulers. > >*********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** > >On 08-12-12 at 8:48 PM Ed Deak wrote: > > >When we went into combat , the guys were carrying 80 shells and we >, > >the marksmen, 140, of which I fired only a handful, while the others > >were popping them away all over the place. > > > >Anybody who fires 7 shots into a head is not a marksman, or even a > >human being, but a horse's ass. > > > >Cheers, Ed. > > > > > > > >At 08:12 PM 12/12/2008, you wrote: > > > >>> * Marksmen involved won't return to frontline duties > >>> > >>>The police marksmen who killed Jean Charles de Menezes at > >>>Stockwell Tube Station were sensationally called liars today. > >> > >> > >>Where the hell did the Daily Mail get the super-PC term > >>"marksmen"? I'm an indifferent shot, not a marksman by any means, > >>yet even I would be capable of holding a gun to a water-melon and > >>firing seven rounds into it. Not, mind, the head of a > >>prisoner. Takes a special kind of vileness to do that, but not > >>marksmanship. Maybe the "marksmen" should be returned to front-line > >>duty - in Afghanistan where the target can defend himself and rid > >>the world of those particular executioners. > >> > >>Dion Giles > >>Western Australia > >>_______________________________________________ > >>Mai-not mailing list > >>Mai-not@globalproblematique.net > >>http://www.globalproblematique.net/mailman/listinfo/mai-not > >> > >> > >>No virus found in this incoming message. > >>Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > >>Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.9.17/1846 - Release Date: > >>12/12/2008 6:59 PM > > > >_______________________________________________ > >Mai-not mailing list > >Mai-not@globalproblematique.net > >http://www.globalproblematique.net/mailman/listinfo/mai-not > > > >No virus found in this incoming message. > >Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > >Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.9.17/1846 - Release Date: > 12/12/2551 18:59 > > > > >_______________________________________________ >Mai-not mailing list >Mai-not@globalproblematique.net >http://www.globalproblematique.net/mailman/listinfo/mai-not > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.9.17/1846 - Release Date: >12/12/2008 6:59 PM From thinker at thelakebc.ca Sat Dec 13 09:54:28 2008 From: thinker at thelakebc.ca (Ed Deak) Date: Sat Dec 13 09:51:04 2008 Subject: [Mai-not] economic suggestion In-Reply-To: <200812132002130343.0240437F@smtp-adsl.totonline.net> References: <200812132002130343.0240437F@smtp-adsl.totonline.net> Message-ID: <200812131550.mBDFotKP011029@karma.reboot.ca> Anybody can jump up and down, wasting hot air by blaming business and politicians till the world goes to hell. Until the public examines the crap being taught in the world's universities as "economics", we'll keep on going to hell. Of course, the money supply should be in the hands and controlled by the public, but where is the scriptural justification for the present crime wave coming from ? In the criminal theory coming out of our universities. How long, before this simple fact sinks in? I've only been preaching it for 20 years, but I'm just an old hick in the sticks and my, and the words of thousands of others, all over the world, are a waste time until the other professors in the universities stand up on their hind legs and demand an investigation into the BS flowing from the economics departments, that should really be dumped into the "divinities" Too simple, and "we can't interfere with other disciplines" as I've been told a thousand times, not comprehending that "academic freedom" involves the search for the truth and not the protection of phonies. I never took economics, but remembering the intellectual atmosphere of Cambridge in those early postwar years, I'm certain that if any professor had tried to teach the now ruling neoclassical crime wave, he, or she would have been laughed out of the classroom. Now everybody just lies back and moans and groans, accepting the worst crime wave in human history, while snapping at the ankles of the pimps who are pushing the drug, but daren't touch the makers. Cheers, Ed. At 05:02 AM 13/12/2008, you wrote: >Remove control of our money supply from private hands and place it >under democratic control. Create a debt-free money supply. This >would, of course, involve much else starting with education and >democracy, but that is the basic suggestion. > >*********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** > >On 08-12-13 at 12:28 PM creuss@bluewin.ch wrote: > > >> I was hoping our new academic Lib leader might have a look at how money > >> is created and challenge the banks, thus committing political suicide. > > > >Again: What is the suggestion to DO economically? > > > >Chris > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >Mai-not mailing list > >Mai-not@globalproblematique.net > >http://www.globalproblematique.net/mailman/listinfo/mai-not > > > >No virus found in this incoming message. > >Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > >Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.9.17/1846 - Release Date: > 12/12/2551 18:59 > > > > >_______________________________________________ >Mai-not mailing list >Mai-not@globalproblematique.net >http://www.globalproblematique.net/mailman/listinfo/mai-not > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.9.17/1846 - Release Date: >12/12/2008 6:59 PM From siamdave at yahoo.ca Sat Dec 13 10:07:45 2008 From: siamdave at yahoo.ca (Dave Patterson) Date: Sat Dec 13 10:07:52 2008 Subject: [Mai-not] Gagged Menezes jury damns police coverup In-Reply-To: <200812131534.mBDFYVKP010163@karma.reboot.ca> References: <20081213041239.858ACF5FD@fep08.mfe.bur.connect.com.au> <200812130445.mBD4j9MK031793@karma.reboot.ca> <200812131241450375.00AD013E@smtp-adsl.totonline.net> <200812131534.mBDFYVKP010163@karma.reboot.ca> Message-ID: <200812132307450500.02EA207B@smtp-adsl.totonline.net> No argument, Ed. It's what we all fight on this list, I think. So far they try to keep a 'good cops' persona as part of the indoctrination-propaganda, but the iron fist under the velvet glove is becoming ever more apparent. *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 08-12-13 at 7:38 AM Ed Deak wrote: >Dave, > >We have exactly the same situation going around here, with the Taser >killing of the Polish guy in Vancouver airport over a year ago. > >The movie shows that he was distraught and behaved erratically, after >having wandered around the area for 10 hours, without anybody even >trying to communicate with him, while his mother was waiting for >him, somewhere else, also misdirected. > >4 cops walked in and tried to talk to him, but he spoke no English. >He wasn't threatening anybody, and as he was walking away, they hit >him with 5 shots of 50,000 volts. He fell down and died. > >Now it was decided by the Attorney General's office, that he died of >heart failure and the effects of years of alcoholism, therefore no >charges will be laid against the goons who Tasered him. > >In short, we live in a globalized police state I was born and grew up >in, in a police family, under fascism. > >Cheers, Ed, > > > > >At 09:41 PM 12/12/2008, you wrote: >>Ed you're being much too kind in calling these orcs 'horse's ass' - >>those who willingly enforce an evil empire are just as evil as their >rulers. >> >>*********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** >> >>On 08-12-12 at 8:48 PM Ed Deak wrote: >> >> >When we went into combat , the guys were carrying 80 shells and we > > > > > > >>, >> >the marksmen, 140, of which I fired only a handful, while the others >> >were popping them away all over the place. >> > >> >Anybody who fires 7 shots into a head is not a marksman, or even a >> >human being, but a horse's ass. >> > >> >Cheers, Ed. >> > >> > >> > >> >At 08:12 PM 12/12/2008, you wrote: >> > >> >>> * Marksmen involved won't return to frontline duties >> >>> >> >>>The police marksmen who killed Jean Charles de Menezes at >> >>>Stockwell Tube Station were sensationally called liars today. >> >> >> >> >> >>Where the hell did the Daily Mail get the super-PC term >> >>"marksmen"? I'm an indifferent shot, not a marksman by any means, >> >>yet even I would be capable of holding a gun to a water-melon and >> >>firing seven rounds into it. Not, mind, the head of a >> >>prisoner. Takes a special kind of vileness to do that, but not >> >>marksmanship. Maybe the "marksmen" should be returned to front-line >> >>duty - in Afghanistan where the target can defend himself and rid >> >>the world of those particular executioners. >> >> >> >>Dion Giles >> >>Western Australia >> >>_______________________________________________ >> >>Mai-not mailing list >> >>Mai-not@globalproblematique.net >> >>http://www.globalproblematique.net/mailman/listinfo/mai-not >> >> >> >> >> >>No virus found in this incoming message. >> >>Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >> >>Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.9.17/1846 - Release Date: >> >>12/12/2008 6:59 PM >> > >> >_______________________________________________ >> >Mai-not mailing list >> >Mai-not@globalproblematique.net >> >http://www.globalproblematique.net/mailman/listinfo/mai-not >> > >> >No virus found in this incoming message. >> >Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >> >Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.9.17/1846 - Release Date: >> 12/12/2551 18:59 >> >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Mai-not mailing list >>Mai-not@globalproblematique.net >>http://www.globalproblematique.net/mailman/listinfo/mai-not >> >>No virus found in this incoming message. >>Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >>Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.9.17/1846 - Release Date: >>12/12/2008 6:59 PM > >_______________________________________________ >Mai-not mailing list >Mai-not@globalproblematique.net >http://www.globalproblematique.net/mailman/listinfo/mai-not > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.9.17/1846 - Release Date: 12/12/2551 18:59 From thinker at thelakebc.ca Sat Dec 13 10:26:25 2008 From: thinker at thelakebc.ca (Ed Deak) Date: Sat Dec 13 10:23:02 2008 Subject: [Mai-not] Gagged Menezes jury damns police coverup In-Reply-To: <200812132307450500.02EA207B@smtp-adsl.totonline.net> References: <20081213041239.858ACF5FD@fep08.mfe.bur.connect.com.au> <200812130445.mBD4j9MK031793@karma.reboot.ca> <200812131241450375.00AD013E@smtp-adsl.totonline.net> <200812131534.mBDFYVKP010163@karma.reboot.ca> <200812132307450500.02EA207B@smtp-adsl.totonline.net> Message-ID: <200812131622.mBDGMrxO012793@karma.reboot.ca> We need cops and I don't even blame them for their stupid and often criminal actions. It is the system and their superiors who are the criminals, just as in wars, it is not the soldiers who do the killings, but the governments, rulers and priests who send and anoint them. I can tolerate all other ranks, but would shed no tears if all the world's second lieutenants and generals would disappear today. They're the biggest criminals. Cheers, Ed. At 08:07 AM 13/12/2008, you wrote: >No argument, Ed. It's what we all fight on this list, I think. So >far they try to keep a 'good cops' persona as part of the >indoctrination-propaganda, but the iron fist under the velvet glove >is becoming ever more apparent. > >*********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** > >On 08-12-13 at 7:38 AM Ed Deak wrote: > > >Dave, > > > >We have exactly the same situation going around here, with the Taser > >killing of the Polish guy in Vancouver airport over a year ago. > > > >The movie shows that he was distraught and behaved erratically, after > >having wandered around the area for 10 hours, without anybody even > >trying to communicate with him, while his mother was waiting for > >him, somewhere else, also misdirected. > > > >4 cops walked in and tried to talk to him, but he spoke no English. > >He wasn't threatening anybody, and as he was walking away, they hit > >him with 5 shots of 50,000 volts. He fell down and died. > > > >Now it was decided by the Attorney General's office, that he died of > >heart failure and the effects of years of alcoholism, therefore no > >charges will be laid against the goons who Tasered him. > > > >In short, we live in a globalized police state I was born and grew up > >in, in a police family, under fascism. > > > >Cheers, Ed, > > > > > > > > > >At 09:41 PM 12/12/2008, you wrote: > >>Ed you're being much too kind in calling these orcs 'horse's ass' - > >>those who willingly enforce an evil empire are just as evil as their > >rulers. > >> > >>*********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** > >> > >>On 08-12-12 at 8:48 PM Ed Deak wrote: > >> > >> >When we went into combat , the guys were carrying 80 shells and we > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>, > >> >the marksmen, 140, of which I fired only a handful, while the others > >> >were popping them away all over the place. > >> > > >> >Anybody who fires 7 shots into a head is not a marksman, or even a > >> >human being, but a horse's ass. > >> > > >> >Cheers, Ed. > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> >At 08:12 PM 12/12/2008, you wrote: > >> > > >> >>> * Marksmen involved won't return to frontline duties > >> >>> > >> >>>The police marksmen who killed Jean Charles de Menezes at > >> >>>Stockwell Tube Station were sensationally called liars today. > >> >> > >> >> > >> >>Where the hell did the Daily Mail get the super-PC term > >> >>"marksmen"? I'm an indifferent shot, not a marksman by any means, > >> >>yet even I would be capable of holding a gun to a water-melon and > >> >>firing seven rounds into it. Not, mind, the head of a > >> >>prisoner. Takes a special kind of vileness to do that, but not > >> >>marksmanship. Maybe the "marksmen" should be returned to front-line > >> >>duty - in Afghanistan where the target can defend himself and rid > >> >>the world of those particular executioners. > >> >> > >> >>Dion Giles > >> >>Western Australia > >> >>_______________________________________________ > >> >>Mai-not mailing list > >> >>Mai-not@globalproblematique.net > >> >>http://www.globalproblematique.net/mailman/listinfo/mai-not > >> >> > >> >> > >> >>No virus found in this incoming message. > >> >>Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > >> >>Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.9.17/1846 - Release Date: > >> >>12/12/2008 6:59 PM > >> > > >> >_______________________________________________ > >> >Mai-not mailing list > >> >Mai-not@globalproblematique.net > >> >http://www.globalproblematique.net/mailman/listinfo/mai-not > >> > > >> >No virus found in this incoming message. > >> >Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > >> >Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.9.17/1846 - Release Date: > >> 12/12/2551 18:59 > >> > >> > >> > >> > >>_______________________________________________ > >>Mai-not mailing list > >>Mai-not@globalproblematique.net > >>http://www.globalproblematique.net/mailman/listinfo/mai-not > >> > >>No virus found in this incoming message. > >>Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > >>Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.9.17/1846 - Release Date: > >>12/12/2008 6:59 PM > > > >_______________________________________________ > >Mai-not mailing list > >Mai-not@globalproblematique.net > >http://www.globalproblematique.net/mailman/listinfo/mai-not > > > >No virus found in this incoming message. > >Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > >Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.9.17/1846 - Release Date: > 12/12/2551 18:59 > > > > >_______________________________________________ >Mai-not mailing list >Mai-not@globalproblematique.net >http://www.globalproblematique.net/mailman/listinfo/mai-not > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.9.17/1846 - Release Date: >12/12/2008 6:59 PM From gdy52150 at spiritone.com Sat Dec 13 11:36:30 2008 From: gdy52150 at spiritone.com (gdy52150) Date: Sat Dec 13 11:12:22 2008 Subject: [Mai-not] economic suggestion In-Reply-To: <20081213042538.237BEF7A4@fep04.mfe.bur.connect.com.au> References: <200812131026400750.0031568D@smtp-adsl.totonline.net> <20081213042538.237BEF7A4@fep04.mfe.bur.connect.com.au> Message-ID: <4943F29E.3020202@spiritone.com> it was no accident that Blagojevich was arrested for corruption the day after he told Bank of America to go f itself Dion Giles wrote: > _WOULD_ it be political suicide to take on the banks? Might just be > that the majority are waiting for a honest and articulate lead. > > Dion Giles > Western Australia > > At 12:26 13/12/2008, Dave wrote: > >> I was hoping our new academic Lib leader might have a look at how >> money is created and challenge the banks, thus committing political >> suicide. I don't hold out much hope. Actually that was facetious, I >> heard him on an interview a couple of days ago and he sounded very >> good. But if he won't challenge the banks, then he is just another >> Obama, somebody to sell the public who are sick to the eyeballs of >> slimeball politicians and ready to bring the system down, a good >> talking, good looking leader who won't actually do anything other >> than look good and talk good. Or maybe I hope for too much, and he'll >> be another Clinton, looking and talking good whilst taking the >> corporate agenda forward. (that would be where my money would be) >> >> *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** >> >> On 08-12-12 at 10:28 PM creuss@bluewin.ch wrote: >> >> >What was the suggestion?? >> > >> > >> > >> >_______________________________________________ >> >Mai-not mailing list >> >Mai-not@globalproblematique.net >> > http://www.globalproblematique.net/mailman/listinfo/mai-not >> > >> >No virus found in this incoming message. >> >Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >> >Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.9.17/1845 - Release Date: >> 12/12/2551 9:02 >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Mai-not mailing list >> Mai-not@globalproblematique.net >> http://www.globalproblematique.net/mailman/listinfo/mai-not > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >Mai-not mailing list >Mai-not@globalproblematique.net >http://www.globalproblematique.net/mailman/listinfo/mai-not > > From creuss at bluewin.ch Sat Dec 13 12:40:03 2008 From: creuss at bluewin.ch (Christoph Reuss) Date: Sat Dec 13 12:42:16 2008 Subject: [Mai-not] economic suggestion Message-ID: > Remove control of our money supply from private hands and place it under > democratic control. Create a debt-free money supply. Very good. Now, if you had written this as the 1st sentence in that long letter to Mr. whatwashisname, he *might* have understood... Chris From creuss at bluewin.ch Sat Dec 13 12:43:25 2008 From: creuss at bluewin.ch (Christoph Reuss) Date: Sat Dec 13 12:45:34 2008 Subject: [Mai-not] How many Obamas does it take to change a lightbulb? Message-ID: Q: How many Obamas does it take to change a lightbulb? A: One. One Obama to campaign though all 57 U$ states about Change We Can Believe In and then the same Obama to screw the SAME OLD neo-con lightbulb in. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ SpamWall: Mail to this addy is deleted unread unless it contains the keyword "igve". From thinker at thelakebc.ca Sat Dec 13 17:23:04 2008 From: thinker at thelakebc.ca (Ed Deak) Date: Sat Dec 13 17:19:42 2008 Subject: [Mai-not] economic suggestion Message-ID: <200812132319.mBDNJWmA002292@karma.reboot.ca> What I always find the most amusing is that every time the obvious, the question of the garbage being taught in our universities as economics, comes up, it brings dead silence from all sides. There was a time when the racial theories of Dr.Rosenberg were accepted as a science, taught in universities, not to mention the Stalin and Mao years, now all wiped out and gone. Can anybody come up with a logical argument why the teaching of neoclassical economics, at the same intellectual level with the above "sciences", should or can not be questioned and thrown into the garbage cans with them ? When they took us to Germany for training, in locked up railway cattlecars across the border, in Dec.1944, we were examined by SS doctors upon our arrival at the famous Neuhammer camp, for our racial classification. One of their test was the close examination of the hairs on the top of our hands, which was supposed to be some kind of a determining sign for Jewish blood. There were 2 in my company who passed as real Aryans. I was Class 3. What exactly is the difference between those "scientific" tests and the neoclassical, monetary market economy theory? Especially, with all the evidence against it ? Cheers, Ed. From diongiles1 at aapt.net.au Sat Dec 13 21:59:33 2008 From: diongiles1 at aapt.net.au (Dion Giles) Date: Sat Dec 13 21:59:40 2008 Subject: [Mai-not] economic suggestion In-Reply-To: <200812132227040250.02C4E059@smtp-adsl.totonline.net> References: <200812132002130343.0240437F@smtp-adsl.totonline.net> <20081213141635.EC336127D5@fep07.mfe.bur.connect.com.au> <200812132227040250.02C4E059@smtp-adsl.totonline.net> Message-ID: <20081214035936.CC87212DBC@fep08.mfe.bur.connect.com.au> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.globalproblematique.net/pipermail/mai-not/attachments/20081214/37f3f652/attachment.html From siamdave at yahoo.ca Sun Dec 14 07:40:49 2008 From: siamdave at yahoo.ca (Dave Patterson) Date: Sun Dec 14 07:41:01 2008 Subject: Ed's question (Re: [Mai-not] economic suggestion In-Reply-To: <200812132319.mBDNJWmA002292@karma.reboot.ca> References: <200812132319.mBDNJWmA002292@karma.reboot.ca> Message-ID: <200812142040490296.02BAF190@smtp-adsl.totonline.net> That's actually an observation that might well yield some interesting answers if explored a bit. It is very odd that 'progressives' seem so clueless about 'real ekonomics' in general, someone interested in exploring 'gatekeeping' might find interesting things. In Canada, the main 'alternative' sites seem to be Rabble, Tyee, Canadian Center for Policy Alternatives, and Straight Goods, and not a one of them seems interested in serious analysis of the monetary system. My question, to parallel Ed's, would be something like, If my Banketeering essay is based on some flawed premise, then I wish someone would tell me about it. And if it is correct, as it is, as far as I can see, then since the principles are pretty easy to grasp, why aren't the 'progressive' sites picking up the very obvious banner and doing at least something with it? This is, it seems to me, the very real 'elephant in the living room' that noone is talking about. The only answer that seems to make sense is - gatekeeping. Those the rulers allow to control 'progressive' sites etc (and fund them) have a couple of basic goals, one of which is seeing that monetary reform is NOT allowed to become an issue amongst 'progressives'. The leading 'progressive' economist who contributes to Rabble has dismissed Banketeering, but declined to actually discuss anything with the excuse that 'he's explained it all before'. (which impresses me no end). (Banketeering here if anyone has not read it and wonders whereof I speak: http://www.rudemacedon.ca/banketeering.html ) *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 08-12-13 at 3:23 PM Ed Deak wrote: >What I always find the most amusing is that every time the obvious, >the question of the garbage being taught in our universities as >economics, comes up, it brings dead silence from all sides. > >There was a time when the racial theories of Dr.Rosenberg were >accepted as a science, taught in universities, not to mention the >Stalin and Mao years, now all wiped out and gone. > >Can anybody come up with a logical argument why the teaching of >neoclassical economics, at the same intellectual level >with the above "sciences", should or can not be questioned and >thrown into the garbage cans with them ? > >When they took us to Germany for training, in locked up railway >cattlecars across the border, in Dec.1944, we were examined by SS >doctors upon our arrival at the famous Neuhammer camp, for our racial >classification. One of their test was the close examination of the >hairs on the top of our hands, which was supposed to be some kind of >a determining sign for Jewish blood. There were 2 in my company who >passed as real Aryans. I was Class 3. > >What exactly is the difference between those "scientific" tests and >the neoclassical, monetary market economy theory? Especially, with >all the evidence against it ? > >Cheers, Ed. > >_______________________________________________ >Mai-not mailing list >Mai-not@globalproblematique.net >http://www.globalproblematique.net/mailman/listinfo/mai-not > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.9.17/1847 - Release Date: 13/12/2551 16:56 From siamdave at yahoo.ca Sun Dec 14 09:03:47 2008 From: siamdave at yahoo.ca (Dave Patterson) Date: Sun Dec 14 09:03:56 2008 Subject: [Mai-not] economic suggestion In-Reply-To: <20081214035936.CC87212DBC@fep08.mfe.bur.connect.com.au> References: <200812132002130343.0240437F@smtp-adsl.totonline.net> <20081213141635.EC336127D5@fep07.mfe.bur.connect.com.au> <200812132227040250.02C4E059@smtp-adsl.totonline.net> <20081214035936.CC87212DBC@fep08.mfe.bur.connect.com.au> Message-ID: <200812142203470796.0306E8D4@smtp-adsl.totonline.net> Sorry if I misunderstood and wrote in haste, Dion. I quite agree we need someone to take up the banner, but I see no likely candidates, including in Canada - my letter was written with no expectation of changing anything, but the sort of thing you have to do sometimes. It is, though, one reason I wrote Green Island, to provide an example of how things might be, even if only fictional. Your comments on 'truncating' the language were quite interesting and on the target, although I have never heard it put this way - but very much part of the dumbing down of everything we have been seeing the last 30 years. Apparently sound-biting is taking over the net and email and such things with this 'Twitter' stuff - I'm put in mind of the recent book by some lady (I didn't read it, just heard of it) who was a doctor, and had a stroke, and was aware of what was happening and documented it minute by minute - I see a parallel with those of us who are still able to think and are aware of what is happening to our whole society, but most people are completely oblivious, and not interested in listening to us .... *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 08-12-14 at 12:59 PM Dion Giles wrote: At 00:27 14/12/2008, Dave wrote: Are you suggesting inter alia or something that there is democratic rather than bank control of the money supply in Australia, with the complicity of course of the politicians and media? Do you have no 'national debt' there siphoning off huge amounts of tax money every year? ==================== No democratic control, deadly siphon. Australia followed exactly the same route and is in exactly the same mess, with the possible advantage of not sharing a border with the USA. So? This thread started with comments on the coming Canadian elections and that has been the context that I have been keeping within here, in particular challenging the idea that for a Canadian (or any other) leader to take on the banks and the neocon programme has to be political suicide. Not having faith in Simultaneous Policy (I see it as Waiting for Godot) I believe the only way to get the world moving the right way is for a country to do it. Any country. And the only way for a country to do it is for a pressure group or political party or social organisation or prominent individual or a combination of all these to show a lead. I can call to mind only two political parties (i.e. participating in elections) in Australia to make such a challenge in an uncompromising fashion and in both cases be brushed aside by most "progressives" because of something ELSE about them. A few years ago there was Pauline Hanson's "One Nation" (PHON no less) that advocated a turn away from neoliberal policies. But they slagged off at Asians (yet it was an Asian country - Malaysia - that actually DID something against the neocon agenda) - there's no doubt PHON are not nice people. Thus it was safe to brush aside what One Nation was saying about the neoliberal agenda of trade promotion, deregulation and privatisation. Currently there is an outfit called the Citizens' Electoral Council (CEC) that is coming up with the same class-based programmes for defeating banker power that find favour here on our list. But they can't be taken seriously because they are followers of Lyndon LaRouche, the Emmanuel Goldstein of many politically progressive people who is a fascist and anti-Semite (must be - his opponents say so don't they) and is something of a wingnut with theories about Buckingham Palace running the world drug trade and the British Foreign Office running America. Safe to put the CEC bulletins in the too hard basket and continue to debate band aid policies as if the neolib teachings came from God and class is oh so yesterday. Truncating our language is truncating our thinking. Possibly the most powerful of these assaults on language and on thinking and on action is The Pterodactyl Truncation (sounds like a title for a Robert Ludlum novel !). All scales and wings. Left wing, right wing, left-right scale - how far left should Barack Obama or the NDP or Kevin Rudd or whoever position themselves on that scale? PHON and Lyndon LaRouche have been labelled rightwing (whatever that really means) - touch anything they advocate and rightwing fleas will jump on to you. Another bogeyman is Marx - "leftwing" label for that one. "glparramatta" 's bulletins draw (as far as I can make out) on the Trotskyite ideology which is a brand of Marxism. Some of the articles are (IMO) nonsense. But it is there that I think I first got to the bottom of what had seemed puzzling about the spreading unrest in Greece and beyond. Left wing, right wing, schmeft wing, schmigfht wing - it still goes back to the effects of neoliberalism (as taught by university economics departments among many others) which in turn goes back to the predatorsom which the professional advocates dutifully serve. But that's not where I came in. Canadian elections - using them to spread resistance to the banksters. Dion Giles Western Australia -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.globalproblematique.net/pipermail/mai-not/attachments/20081214/023b6aa1/attachment.html From thinker at thelakebc.ca Sun Dec 14 09:29:24 2008 From: thinker at thelakebc.ca (Ed Deak) Date: Sun Dec 14 09:26:04 2008 Subject: [Mai-not] Advance copy of my column Message-ID: <200812141525.mBEFPtSX008000@karma.reboot.ca> This is for the Wed. Dec17 issue or the Gold River Record. To: record@cablerocket.com Subject: Fiat lux # 225 Fiat lux # 225 December 12, 2008. "Isn't it terrible, how a crooked, commie, separatist coalition is trying to take over the elected government of the country with a coup?" " Lucky, we have a Governor General who could see through the plans of the unions to destroy our democracy and install a dictatorship"." Yeah, it's them unions trying to screw up the economy!" We're buried daily under an incredible pile of propaganda in the press, and other media, under the control and used as a brainwashing machine by an international ruling sector, now in the final stages of their plans to achieve control over the world's resources and humanity. No wonder they're scared that the people of a country, already under their thumb, may just wake up and throw a 2x4 into the spokes of the wagon, now careening downhill, out of control to its final crash, so they can rush in and pick the loot up from the wreck. In the sacred name of wealth creation, of course. Today's tragic events, not only for Canada, but the whole human race, have been repeating themselves, albeit on smaller, localized scales, hundreds of times in the past few thousands years of written history. But this control racket must have originated in the caves of our ancestors, where the biggest, and strongest, with the biggest club in his hands claimed the right to rule by the will of the thousands of long forgotten gods humanity sacrificed itself to, under every age and system. But let's go back to our present, so called political crisis, which isn't a crisis at all, except in the minds of would be rulers and their ideological slaves. We had elections a couple of months ago, where, once again, and thank goodness, no party has won the majority of seats. Not necessarily the majority of the popular vote, which doesn't mean much in our so called "democracy", but seats. After all, if Mulroney could get the majority of seats to sell the country off to the US-Canada Free Trade Agreement, with only 43 percent of the votes, anything is possible, and whether it is really democratic is up to interpretation, by professional mind benders, still in the service of the jerks with the biggest clubs. Of curse, the clubs have by now been replaced with the deregulated money creating powers of the banks, to buy, conquer, colonize and enslave anything, and anybody, blessed and legalized by our parties and politicians, but the principle of the rights of the strongest dog is still the ruling factor. The cold, hard fact is that the Reform/CRAPP/ Conservative/Alliance received only a bit over one third of the popular vote, but the largest number of MPs, which gave them first shot at becoming government in our first past the post system of so called democracy. (Roll on the day of some form of proportional representation, if the VIP Lords of the Universe ever permit it to succeed) There have been a number of well documented attempts in the past, including some by Mr.Harper, to form some sort of coalition, with the commie NDP and separatist BQ, against the Liberals, but they didn't work. Probably, nobody trusted him any more, than they trust him now. However, these failed attempts are conveniently forgotten now that the shoe is on the other foot. We know it now that the plans for present coalition started on Oct.14, right after the elections, but didn't come out into the open, until Harper made his monumental screwup by trying to to become ruler without a parliamentary majority, which is now in the hands of the coalition. Coalition governments, all over the world, are penny a dozen, going way back into history. As I mentioned in my last column, Churchill formed a coalition in Britain for the war years and it worked alright, because the participants buried their silly ideological hatchets and worked for a common cause. One of the most notorious examples is Israel, the drooled over, sacred heroes of our controlled media and establishments, always governed by coalitions, often failing one after the other. So, if coalitions are OK and welcome in other countries, what's wrong with them in Canada ? The answer is very simple: A Canadian coalition may work in the interest of the people, trying to save lives in the coming depression, caused by the same people who are now propagandizing so much against it, because it would interfere with their plans to sell off and colonize the country into the hands of the international corporate mafia. Very few people have ever heard and know of the ongoing secret negotiation that started with Martin's Liberal government for the sale and elimination of any Canadian decision making process under the Security and Prosperity Partnership, the SPP, the forerunner of the North American Union, the NAU. If they succeed, we'll be governed by the self proclaimed Proto Parliament of the North American Competitiveness Council, run by ten of the biggest, unelected, corporate thieves from each of the three NAFTA countries. So, what can we expect for the future? With the Governor General browbeaten and possibly threatened with dismissal, a prerogative of the Prime Minister, she prorogued parliament until the end of January, totally against the laws of democracy and precedents. The coalition's survival under a new, unelected Liberal leader, based on his past history, is highly questionable. Which may be the best scenario on the long run, because if the government falls to a no-confidence vote, they may force the GG to call elections, which may give Harper an odd chance to gain majority on a sympathy vote and then God help us and Canada. My Christmas wish for ourselves, and this wonderful country, is the disappearance of Mr.Harper from our political scene, or at least his continuation in a minority, with the people awakening and knocking out the criminals his government represents, who now are forcing the whole world into a disaster many of us have grown up in as children, never imagining that we would see it again in our old age. Merry Christmas and very Happy Awakened New Year to everybody, especially for those, who are still living in the phony dreamworld sold to by these screwballer maniacs. From jmeaton at ns.sympatico.ca Sun Dec 14 07:50:13 2008 From: jmeaton at ns.sympatico.ca (Janet M Eaton) Date: Sun Dec 14 12:48:07 2008 Subject: [Mai-not] Human Rights, Employee Free Choice Act (EFCA) & the Economic Crisis Message-ID: <4944D6D5.29353.43576353@jmeaton.ns.sympatico.ca> Universal Declaration Article 24 explicitly supports 'the right to form and to join trade unions.' The pending Employee Free Choice Act would help to do that, but it will stir up a hornet's nest of Republican and business opposition. ..Nonetheless, we should bring American labor law into conformity with international human rights standards quickly, for two good reasons: first, because democracy needs it, and secondly because our economy needs it.... We need an organized, informed labor movement to counter the unchecked greed of big money. We need unions to reinvigorate American democracy and the economy. Once, thirty-five percent of American workers belonged to unions and, as a result, a more equitable income distribution allowed more balanced economic growth. Now, with only twelve percent in unions, economic disparities are vast and consumer power is weak. -- Michael Honey, President of the Labor and Working Class History Association (LAWCHA) and Haley Professor of Humanities at the University of Washington, Tacoma fyi-janet ================================= SeattlePI.com Last updated December 11, 2008 Human Rights, EFCA, & the Economic Crisis By Michael Honey Sixty years ago this week, the United Nations adopted the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. It codified liberties Americans had long supported: freedom of speech, assembly, association, belief and worship; legal rights and due process; rights to a job at good wages under reasonable conditions, and economic security. One cannot help but notice that our government has violated or ignored most of the Universal Declaration's articles in the last eight years. People here and around the world fervently hope that Obama will deliver on his promises to do far better. But on one central human rights issue it is unclear what the Obama team will do. Universal Declaration Article 24 explicitly supports 'the right to form and to join trade unions.' The pending Employee Free Choice Act would help to do that, but it will stir up a hornet's nest of Republican and business opposition. There will be no 'bi- partisanship.' Nonetheless, we should bring American labor law into conformity with international human rights standards quickly, for two good reasons: first, because democracy needs it, and secondly because our economy needs it. The Wagner Act of 1935 established the National Labor Relations Administration (NLRA). The law allowed workers to petition to hold an election for a union or to win union bargaining rights when a majority simply signed authorization cards. Court decisions have eviscerated that last right, while many employers have ignored the law and government has largely failed to enforce it. Workers who organize today are frequently fired, threatened with plant closings, held in captive audience meetings, or otherwise intimidated. Prior to the Wagner act, many working-class Americans lacked basic citizenship rights at work. That is true once again today. Polls show that millions of Americans would join a union except they are afraid to try to do so. The destruction of union rights has enabled employers to flout the law and silence workers. Lack of rights at work has also helped to cause our current economic train wreck. Absent unions, soaring worker productivity in the last twenty years has not been matched by increased wages, while CEO profits have shot through the stratosphere. Unionization would increase wages. It would be a far cheaper way to increase consumption than economic bail-outs. Business economists claim unions impede economic growth, but most historians say union wage gains made workers into consumers and thereby fueled economic growth for major portions of the twentieth century. So, what would EFCA do? As with the original Wagner Act, when fifty percent or more sign union authorization cards employers would have to recognize a union and bargain in good faith or risk NLRA intervention. And it would increase and enforce penalties for interfering with worker's rights. EFCA is not a free ride. If workers don't like a union, a petition by thirty percent of them still triggers an election in which they may eliminate it. We need an organized, informed labor movement to counter the unchecked greed of big money. We need unions to reinvigorate American democracy and the economy. Once, thirty-five percent of American workers belonged to unions and, as a result, a more equitable income distribution allowed more balanced economic growth. Now, with only twelve percent in unions, economic disparities are vast and consumer power is weak. Union organizing helped Americans to right the shipwreck of American capitalism in the 1930s. Strengthening union rights can help us to do it again. ______________ Michael Honey is President of the Labor and Working Class History Association (LAWCHA) and Haley Professor of Humanities at the University of Washington, Tacoma From fresch at ica.net Sun Dec 14 14:13:00 2008 From: fresch at ica.net (Fred Schneider) Date: Sun Dec 14 14:13:11 2008 Subject: [Mai-not] Re: Mai-not Digest, Vol 54, Issue 19 In-Reply-To: <200812141800.mBEI05fc019954@karma.reboot.ca> References: <200812141800.mBEI05fc019954@karma.reboot.ca> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20081214140358.026acc98@ica.net> At 01:00 PM 12/14/2008, you wrote: > > Remove control of our money supply from private hands and place it under > > democratic control. Create a debt-free money supply. It could be very dangerous if Obama would try to "remove control of our money supply from private hands and place it under democratic control". Abraham Lincoln tried it, and so did J.F. Kennedy. Both were assassinated before they could succeed. See: http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?ID=7867 John F. Kennedy vs The Federal Reserve http://www.servelec.net/lincoln.htm Abraham Lincoln, why did he die? My home page: "http://home.ica.net/~fresch/index.htm" ======================================== Fred Schneider, 905-279-7199, Fax: same, call first! #37-425 Meadows Blvd. Mississauga, ON, L4Z 1N3 From thinker at thelakebc.ca Mon Dec 15 09:46:35 2008 From: thinker at thelakebc.ca (Ed Deak) Date: Mon Dec 15 09:43:11 2008 Subject: [Mai-not] Bush Tenure an Unalloyed Success Message-ID: <200812151543.mBFFh0mc001446@karma.reboot.ca> Subject: US News White House Memo: Bush Tenure an `Unalloyed Success? The White House has sent a memo to Cabinet members and other high-ranking officials suggesting how they can bolster President George W. Bush?s legacy when discussing his tenure in their public speeches. The two-page document presents the Bush record as an "unalloyed success," according to the Los Angeles Times, which obtained a copy of the memo. The memo?s talking points state that Bush "kept the American people safe" after 9/11, lifted the economy after 2001 through tax cuts, curbed AIDS in Africa and maintained "the honor and the dignity of his office." It also states: "He promised to raise standards and accountability in public schools ? and delivered the No Child Left Behind Act." But it omits mention of the housing market meltdown, the collapse of major financial services companies, the faulty intelligence leading up to the invasion of Iraq, or the federal response to Hurricane Katrina, the Times notes. It does cite the current economic crisis, saying that Bush "responded with bold measures to prevent an economic meltdown." White House spokesman Carlton Carroll said no one is required to adhere to the talking points laid out in the memo. Report: Obama Vows Nuclear Strike if Iran Nukes Israel Barack Obama?s administration will offer Israel a "nuclear umbrella" against the threat of a nuclear strike by Iran, a source told the Israeli newspaper Haaretz. The source, who Haaretz states is "close to the new administration," asserted that the U.S. will warn that an attack on Israel would bring a devastating American nuclear response against Iran. Hillary Clinton suggested a U.S. nuclear guarantee to Israel during her presidential campaign, declaring in a debate with Obama: "Iran must know that an attack on Israel will draw a massive response." Obama has said he would negotiate with Iran and offer economic incentives for the Islamic Republic to give up its nuclear program. But offering Israel a nuclear umbrella "essentially suggests the U.S. is willing to come to terms with a nuclear Iran," Haaretz observed. Israel opposes any such development. A senior Bush administration said the proposal for a nuclear umbrella lacked credibility. "Who will convince the citizen in Kansas that the U.S. needs to get mixed up in a nuclear war because Haifa was bombed?" he told the paper. "And what is the point of an American response, after Israel?s cities are destroyed in an Iranian nuclear strike?" Haaretz also reported this past week that Iran had arrested a number of workers involved in the nation?s nuclear program on suspicion of spying. A report released by Tabnak, an official Iranian news agency, did not disclose how many people were arrested or what country they were working for. But last month, Tehran?s official radio station declared that Iran had broken up a spy network with alleged links to Israel?s Mossad spy agency. Also last month, Iran executed a businessman convicted of spying on Iran?s military for Israel. From thinker at thelakebc.ca Mon Dec 15 09:53:30 2008 From: thinker at thelakebc.ca (Ed Deak) Date: Mon Dec 15 09:50:05 2008 Subject: [Mai-not] Senate to Middle Class: Drop Dead Message-ID: <200812151549.mBFFntmc001838@karma.reboot.ca> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 15:36:31 -0500 From: Michael Moore Subject: Senate to Middle Class: Drop Dead ...a message from Michael Moore Senate to Middle Class: Drop Dead Friday, December 12th, 2008 Friends, They could have given the loan on the condition that the automakers start building only cars and mass transit that reduce our dependency on oil. They could have given the loan on the condition that the automakers build cars that reduce global warming. They could have given the loan on the condition that the automakers withdraw their many lawsuits against state governments in their attempts to not comply with our environmental laws. They could have given the loan on the condition that the management team which drove these once-great manufacturers into the ground resign and be replaced with a team who understands the transportation needs of the 21st century. Yes, they could have given the loan for any of these reasons because, in the end, to lose our manufacturing infrastructure and throw 3 million people out of work would be a catastrophe. But instead, the Senate said, we'll give you the loan only if the factory workers take a $20 an hour cut in wages, pension and health care. That's right. After giving BILLIONS to Wall Street hucksters and criminal investment bankers -- billions with no strings attached and, as we have since learned, no oversight whatsoever -- the Senate decided it is more important to break a union, more important to throw middle class wage earners into the ranks of the working poor than to prevent the total collapse of industrial America. We have a little more than a month to go of this madness. As I sit here in Michigan today, tens of thousands of hard working, honest, decent Americans do not believe they can make it to January 20th. The malaise here is astounding. Why must they suffer because of the mistakes of every CEO from Roger Smith to Rick Wagoner? Make management and the boards of directors and the shareholders pay for this. Of course that is heresy to the 31 Republicans who decided to blame the poor, miserable autoworkers for this mess. And our wonderful media complied with their spin on the morning news shows: "UAW Refuses to Give Concessions Killing Auto Bailout Bill." In fact the UAW has given concession after concession, reduced their benefits, agreed to get rid of the Jobs Bank and agreed to make it harder for their retirees to live from week to week. Yes! That's what we need to do! It's the Jobs Bank and the old people who have led the nation to economic ruin! But even doing all that wasn't enough to satisfy the bastard Republicans. These Senate vampires wanted blood. Blue collar blood. You see, they weren't opposed to the bailout because they believed in the free market or capitalism. No, they were opposed to the bailout because they're opposed to workers making a decent wage. In their rage, they were driven to destroy the backbone of this country, not because the UAW hadn't given back enough, but because the UAW hadn't given up. It appears that the sitting President has been looking for a way to end his reign by one magnanimous act, just like a warlord on his feast day. He will put his finger in the dyke, and the fragile mess of an auto industry will eke through the next few months. That will give the Senate enough time to demand that the bankers and investment sharks who've already swiped nearly half of the $700 billion gift a chance to make the offer of cutting their pay. Fat chance. Yours, Michael Moore MMFlint@aol.com http://www.michaelmoore.com/ Join Mike's Mailing List ( http://www.michaelmoore.com/mikesmailinglist/index.php ) | Join Mike's Facebook Group ( http://www.new.facebook.com/pages/Michael-Moore/24674986856 ) | Become Mike's MySpace Friend ( http://www.myspace.com/mmflint ) From diongiles1 at aapt.net.au Mon Dec 15 17:36:20 2008 From: diongiles1 at aapt.net.au (Dion Giles) Date: Mon Dec 15 17:36:39 2008 Subject: [Mai-not] Re: [ERANet] Senate to Middle Class: Drop Dead In-Reply-To: <200812152239.mBFMdQON005873@mail12.tpg.com.au> References: <200812152239.mBFMdQON005873@mail12.tpg.com.au> Message-ID: <20081215233623.9C87711DE9@fep02.mfe.bur.connect.com.au> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.globalproblematique.net/pipermail/mai-not/attachments/20081216/be346e3e/attachment.html From ptuffley at xtra.co.nz Mon Dec 15 17:57:12 2008 From: ptuffley at xtra.co.nz (Peter Tuffley) Date: Mon Dec 15 17:57:44 2008 Subject: [Mai-not] UK Sunday Herald: Six years of carnage for what, exactly? Message-ID: <6FEC9D41-C7D9-462E-A7C5-F47E25A3E640@xtra.co.nz> Six years of carnage for what, exactly? By Ian Bell THERE WILL be no victory parades, I think. Next March, fully six years after they arrived, the last of Britain's troops will begin to leave Basra. By June, reportedly, only a token few hundred of the 4100 remnant of a 46,000-strong force will remain to train Iraqis and assist the new American tenants at the city's airport. The British are packing up their tents, their tanks, and their pretensions. Full article at: http://www.sundayherald.com/oped/opinion/display.var.2475008.0.0.php Peter -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.globalproblematique.net/pipermail/mai-not/attachments/20081216/09dee01f/attachment.html From thinker at thelakebc.ca Mon Dec 15 18:42:29 2008 From: thinker at thelakebc.ca (Ed Deak) Date: Mon Dec 15 18:39:00 2008 Subject: [Mai-not] Bush's "midnight rules" Message-ID: <200812160038.mBG0cnqE003807@karma.reboot.ca> Bush sneaks through host of laws to undermine Obama The lame-duck Republican team is rushing through radical measures, from coal waste dumping to power stations in national parks, that will take months to overturn, reports Paul Harris in New York After spending eight years at the helm of one of the most ideologically driven administrations in American history, George W. Bush is ending his presidency in characteristically aggressive fashion, with a swath of controversial measures designed to reward supporters and enrage opponents. By the time he vacates the White House, he will have issued a record number of so-called 'midnight regulations' - so called because of the stealthy way they appear on the rule books - to undermine the administration of Barack Obama, many of which could take years to undo. Dozens of new rules have already been introduced which critics say will diminish worker safety, pollute the environment, promote gun use and curtail abortion rights. Many rules promote the interests of large industries, such as coal mining or energy, which have energetically supported Bush during his two terms as president. More are expected this week. America's attention is focused on the fate of the beleaguered car industry, still seeking backing in Washington for a multi-billion-dollar bail-out. But behind the scenes, the 'midnight' rules are being rushed through with little fanfare and minimal media attention. None of them would be likely to appeal to the incoming Obama team. The regulations cover a vast policy area, ranging from healthcare to car safety to civil liberties. Many are focused on the environment and seek to ease regulations that limit pollution or restrict harmful industrial practices, such as dumping strip-mining waste. The Bush moves have outraged many watchdog groups. 'The regulations we have seen so far have been pretty bad,' said Matt Madia, a regulatory policy analyst at OMB Watch. 'The effects of all this are going to be severe.' Bush can pass the rules because of a loophole in US law allowing him to put last-minute regulations into the Code of Federal Regulations, rules that have the same force as law. He can carry out many of his political aims without needing to force new laws through Congress. Outgoing presidents often use the loophole in their last weeks in office, but Bush has done this far more than Bill Clinton or his father, George Bush sr. He is on track to issue more 'midnight regulations' than any other previous president. Many of these are radical and appear to pay off big business allies of the Republican party. One rule will make it easier for coal companies to dump debris from strip mining into valleys and streams. The process is part of an environmentally damaging technique known as 'mountain-top removal mining'. It involves literally removing the top of a mountain to excavate a coal seam and pouring the debris into a valley, which is then filled up with rock. The new rule will make that dumping easier. Another midnight regulation will allow power companies to build coal-fired power stations nearer to national parks. Yet another regulation will allow coal-fired stations to increase their emissions without installing new anti-pollution equipment. The Environmental Defence Fund has called the moves a 'fire sale of epic size for coal'. Other environmental groups agree. 'The only motivation for some of these rules is to benefit the business interests that the Bush administration has served,' said Ed Hopkins, a director of environmental quality at the Sierra Club. A case in point would seem to be a rule that opens up millions of acres of land to oil shale extraction, which environmental groups say is highly pollutant. There is a long list of other new regulations that have gone onto the books. One lengthens the number of hours that truck drivers can drive without rest. Another surrenders government control of rerouting the rail transport of hazardous materials around densely populated areas and gives it to the rail companies. One more chips away at the protection of endangered species. Gun control is also weakened by allowing loaded and concealed guns to be carried in national parks. Abortion rights are hit by allowing healthcare workers to cite religious or moral grounds for opting out of carrying out certain medical procedures. A common theme is shifting regulation of industry from government to the industries themselves, essentially promoting self-regulation. One rule transfers assessment of the impact of ocean-fishing away from federal inspectors to advisory groups linked to the fishing industry. Another allows factory farms to self-regulate disposal of pollutant run-off. The White House denies it is sabotaging the new administration. It says many of the moves have been openly flagged for months. The spate of rules is going to be hard for Obama to quickly overcome. By issuing them early in the 'lame duck' period of office, the Bush administration has mostly dodged 30- or 60-day time limits that would have made undoing them relatively straightforward. Obama's team will have to go through a more lengthy process of reversing them, as it is forced to open them to a period of public consulting. That means that undoing the damage could take months or even years, especially if corporations go to the courts to prevent changes. At the same time, the Obama team will have a huge agenda on its plate as it inherits the economic crisis. Nevertheless, anti-midnight regulation groups are lobbying Obama's transition team to make sure Bush's new rules are changed as soon as possible. 'They are aware of this. The transition team has a list of things they want to undo,' said Madia. Final reckoning Bush's midnight regulations will: . Make it easier for coal companies to dump waste from strip-mining into valleys and streams. . Ease the building of coal-fired power stations nearer to national parks. . Allow people to carry loaded and concealed weapons in national parks. . Open up millions of acres to mining for oil shale. . Allow healthcare workers to opt out of giving treatment for religious or moral reasons, thus weakening abortion rights. . Hurt road safety by allowing truck drivers to stay at the wheel for 11 consecutive hours. ******* From thinker at thelakebc.ca Mon Dec 15 18:53:52 2008 From: thinker at thelakebc.ca (Ed Deak) Date: Mon Dec 15 18:50:22 2008 Subject: [Mai-not] Robot armies Message-ID: <200812160050.mBG0oCqE005080@karma.reboot.ca> Subject: Love, labour and the robot armies of the future Perhaps further automation is behind recent U.S. senate efforts to get the UAW to knuckle under and allow yet further concessions in exchange for industry bailouts. guardian.co.uk home Top of Form Bottom of Form Love, labour and the robot armies of the future * Bobbie Johnson in San Francisco * The Guardian, Monday 15 December 2008 * Article history The next decade will see the world become increasingly reliant on robotic labour, according to researchers, who warn that there could also be some unintended social consequences. "Just as we depend on mobile phones and cars in our daily lives today, the next 15 years will see mass hybridisation between humans and robots," says Antonio Lopez Pelaez, a professor of sociology at Spain's National Distance Learning University. He is co-author of a study predicting an evolution of the so-called "digital divide" - the gap between those who have access to advanced technology and communications such as the internet, and those who do not. The paper, published in the journal Technological Forecasting and Social Change, suggests 40% of the world's armies will become automated by 2020, as well as a possibility of robotic body implants being commonplace. Japan leads the world in robot density, with 295 per 10,000 workers, but Asia as a whole lags behind Europe and the US. According to Spectrum magazine, Europe has the world's biggest number of robots, an average of 50 per 10,000 workers, primarily in the car industry, and in foundries and chemical plants. Britain has an average of 40, behind Germany, Sweden and Italy. The International Federation of Robotics predicts the next three years will see significant growth in robot use, particularly in the home and for personal use. A fourfold increase in robots for entertainment and leisure technology is foreseen for 2011, through a convergence of robotics, computers and home entertainment. The Spanish study concurs, even suggesting many people could become reliant on robotic companions over time. "A robot might be a more effective partner and a better person than the humans we actually have in our immediate lives," said Pelaez. "Just as you can see dog owners talking to their pets today, soon we will be talking to robots." The potential for an emotional connection with a talking machine has been the subject of many studies. A book by the British futurist David Levy, Love and Sex with Robots, predicted that by 2050 humans would routinely enjoy both romance and sex with a robot partner. "There are millions of people out there in the world who for one reason or another can't establish normal relationships with humans," he said. "This is not science fiction." http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2008/dec/15/robots-labour-dependce-social-consequences -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image00144.gif Type: image/gif Size: 833 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.globalproblematique.net/pipermail/mai-not/attachments/20081215/203fa270/image00144.gif From jmeaton at ns.sympatico.ca Mon Dec 15 20:55:32 2008 From: jmeaton at ns.sympatico.ca (Janet M Eaton) Date: Mon Dec 15 20:57:56 2008 Subject: [Mai-not] fyi-> RE: Hyman Minsky, anyone? Message-ID: <4946E064.5415.4B4CBAF4@jmeaton.ns.sympatico.ca> Fwd from TOES list fyi-janet ==================== ------- Forwarded message follows ------- To: "INTERNET:toeslist@yahoogroups.com" From: Robert W Zimmerer <76300.3217@COMPUSERVE.COM> Date sent: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 21:43:15 -0500 Subject: [toeslist] RE: Hyman Minsky, anyone? Send reply to: toeslist@yahoogroups.com Tadit asks: Has anyone on this list read Hyman Minsky's "Stabilizing an Unstable Economy"? He has several interesting points one is that since WWII economics has been operating without an effective theory of how complex economies operate and another is that instability is intrinsic to the type of economy that has been accepted as the global standard........ ...... In case y'all were not aware Minsky essentially predicted the current debacle, and he might even laugh at the dark comedy of the current "know-nothing" economists trying to restart their dream making casino economics. ************************** RwZ I have heard of Minsky's unorthodox economics and I quote this positive comment from my copy of "The Death of Money" by Joel Kurtzman (1993). ************************** begin quote Hyman Minsky , a senior fellow at the Levy Economics Institute, has been watching the way the electronic economy has been unfolding for years. He was one of the first to write about the new instability. Minsky, a brilliant thinker with a warm sense of humor, says that the electronic economy has a higher degree of instability built into it than what went before it. That instability is largely the result of the growth of finance. And finance is changing daily, he said "When I was teaching finance at Washington University I had to revise the course every time I taught it because of all the innovations and new products." But while the economy may have become unstable, we have yet to devise policy tools to correctly manage it. And though the government plays a far larger role in the economy than ever before - as a participant in the credit markets, for example - it has very meager resources with which to manage the economy's ups and downs. In a report to the 20th Century Fund, a non-profit research organization in New York, Minsky wrote that "the dynamics of a capitalist economy which has complex, sophisticated, and evolving financial structures leads to the development of conditions conducive to incoherence - to runaway inflation or deep depressions." Minsky is optimistic that governments will learn how to temper the instabvility, but so far, he believes, they have not learned how! pg 74 end of quote *********************** RwZ The "innovations" and "evolving financial structures" Minsky referred to were no doubt the proliferating debt constructs like Derivatives and Credit Default Swaps which have built a tower of debt some $180 trillion "high" carried on the books of banks, according to the US Comptroller of the Currency. This debt is worth only what it can be sold for on the open market which is fast approaching nothing. There is no amount of legal tender in the world to pay off these speculative debts. The Fed and US Treasury are frantically trying to pump US legal tender into the financial system to save banks. This world wide financial structure is not collapsing simply due to "instability," it was unsustainable. Interest earning debt piled ever higher requires by it very existence that more debt be created just to pay that interest. Our money supply has always been created in most part by bank loans which create new money with interest earning debt, Fractional Reserve Banking. It is simple mathematics to show that this is an exponential process whose rate of growth depends on the interest rate the debt demands. All exponential processes must cease, usually in suden collapse. The present financial debt boom was propelled by the faith that debts could be rolled over indefinitely and their market value would increase forever, like real estate prices. The collapse began when prices could not be increased and interest payments faltered. This unsustainability of increasing debt money creation lies behind our recurring financial booms and busts. This traditional financial system can not be saved and the new system must be based on debt free legal tender spent into the economy by the government - legal tender not created by National Debt - and tight control of debt money creation by banks. This is clearly explained by Ellen Brown in her book "Web of Debt" and in her many articles on Her latest article published in YES Magazine: "Path to a New Economy a Radical Plan for Funding the New Deal" can be read at ...... RwZ ........ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: - Type: application/octet-stream Size: 4662 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.globalproblematique.net/pipermail/mai-not/attachments/20081215/d314f447/--0003.obj -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: - Type: application/octet-stream Size: 17575 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.globalproblematique.net/pipermail/mai-not/attachments/20081215/d314f447/--0004.obj -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: - Type: application/octet-stream Size: 169 bytes Desc: "AVG certification" Url : http://www.globalproblematique.net/pipermail/mai-not/attachments/20081215/d314f447/--0005.obj From creuss at bluewin.ch Tue Dec 16 04:38:50 2008 From: creuss at bluewin.ch (Christoph Reuss) Date: Tue Dec 16 04:41:33 2008 Subject: [Mai-not] Iraqi Journo Re-Defines "Shoe Bomber" Message-ID: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7783608.stm Iraq rally for Bush shoe attacker Monday, 15 December 2008 Thousands of Iraqis have demanded the release of a local TV reporter who threw his shoes at US President George W Bush at a Baghdad news conference. Crowds gathered in Baghdad's Sadr City district, calling for "hero" Muntadar al-Zaidi to be freed from custody. Officials at the Iraqi-owned TV station, al-Baghdadiya, called for the release of their journalist, saying he was exercising freedom of expression. Iraqi officials have described the incident as shameful. A statement released by the government said Mr Zaidi's actions, which also included him shouting insults at President Bush, "harmed the reputation of Iraqi journalists and Iraqi journalism in general". Correspondents say the protesters are supporters of Shia cleric Moqtada Sadr - a leading critic of the US presence in Iraq. Smaller protests were reported in Basra and Najaf. The Iraqi government has demanded an on-air apology from his employer. An Iraqi official was quoted by the Associated Press as saying that the journalist was being interrogated to determine whether anybody paid him to throw his shoes at President Bush. He was also being tested for alcohol and drugs, and his shoes were being held as evidence, said the official, speaking on condition of anonymity. The Cairo-based al-Baghdadiya TV channel said Mr Zaidi should be freed because he had been exercising freedom of expression - something which the Americans had promised to Iraqis on the ousting of former Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein. "Any measures against Muntadar will be considered the acts of a dictatorial regime," the firm said in a statement. The programming director for al-Baghdadiya, Muzhir al-Khafaji, described the journalist as a "proud Arab and an open-minded man". He said he was afraid for Mr Zaidi's safety, adding that the reporter had been arrested by US officials twice before. "We fear that our correspondents in Iraq will be arrested. We have 200 correspondents there," he added. 'Proud Arab' Mr Zaidi leapt from his chair at Sunday's news conference and hurled first one shoe and then the other at Mr Bush, who was joined at the podium by Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri Maliki. The shoes missed as Mr Bush ducked, and Mr Zaidi was immediately wrestled to the ground by security guards and frogmarched from the room. "This is a farewell kiss, you dog," he yelled in Arabic as he threw his shoes. "This is from the widows, the orphans and those who were killed in Iraq." Arabic TV stations have been repeatedly showing footage of the incident, which was also front-page news in many papers. Correspondents say the journalist's tirade was echoed by Arabs across the Middle East who are fed up with US policy in the region. "He [George Bush] deserves to be hit with 100, not just one or two shoes. Who wants him to come here?" said a man in Baghdad. But his view was not expressed by everyone. "I think this incident is unnecessary, to be honest. That was a press conference, not a war. If someone wants to express his opinion he should do so in the proper manner, not this way," said another Baghdad resident. Courts criticised Also on Monday, Human Rights Watch accused Iraq's main criminal court of failing to meet basic international standards of justice. The New York-based group said torture and abuse of prisoners before trial appeared common, and legal representation was often ineffectual. Human Rights Watch said some of the court's failings showed disturbing similarities to those that existed during the Saddam Hussein era. The group called on Iraq to take immediate steps to protect detainees from torture, and ensure they had access to proper defence and received a prompt hearing. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ SpamWall: Mail to this addy is deleted unread unless it contains the keyword "igve". From duanebehrens at cox.net Tue Dec 16 06:08:57 2008 From: duanebehrens at cox.net (Duane Behrens) Date: Tue Dec 16 06:10:10 2008 Subject: [Mai-not] JFK on War Message-ID: <20081216070857.APTZ3.89630.imail@fed1rmwml33> . . . . not hard to see why he was killed . . . . DB ------------------------------------- "War will exist until that distant day when the conscientious objector enjoys the same reputation and prestige that the warrior does today." -John F. Kennedy, 35th US president (1917-1963) From thinker at thelakebc.ca Tue Dec 16 10:00:37 2008 From: thinker at thelakebc.ca (Ed Deak) Date: Tue Dec 16 09:57:15 2008 Subject: [Mai-not] JFK on War In-Reply-To: <20081216070857.APTZ3.89630.imail@fed1rmwml33> References: <20081216070857.APTZ3.89630.imail@fed1rmwml33> Message-ID: <200812161557.mBGFv7c2031655@karma.reboot.ca> Wealth is the temporary control of energy. Wealth can not be created, only taken from other sectors, the environment and the future. War and crime are the utmost forms of economic competition for the control of energy. As long as the world believes in and follows the tenets of "competitive efficiency", we're going to have wars. Cheers, Ed. At 04:08 AM 16/12/2008, you wrote: > . . . . not hard to see why he was killed . . . . DB > >------------------------------------- > >"War will exist until that distant day when the conscientious >objector enjoys the same reputation and prestige that the warrior does today." > >-John F. Kennedy, 35th US president (1917-1963) > >_______________________________________________ >Mai-not mailing list >Mai-not@globalproblematique.net >http://www.globalproblematique.net/mailman/listinfo/mai-not > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.9.18/1850 - Release Date: >12/15/2008 5:04 PM From thinker at thelakebc.ca Tue Dec 16 10:26:28 2008 From: thinker at thelakebc.ca (Ed Deak) Date: Tue Dec 16 10:23:00 2008 Subject: [Mai-not] Gaza Message-ID: <200812161622.mBGGMpTi001156@karma.reboot.ca> Published on Monday, December 15, 2008 by TruthDig.com Israel's 'Crime Against Humanity' by Chris Hedges Israel's siege of Gaza, largely unseen by the outside world because of Jerusalem's refusal to allow humanitarian aid workers, reporters and photographers access to Gaza, rivals the most egregious crimes carried out at the height of apartheid by the South African regime. It comes close to the horrors visited on Sarajevo by the Bosnian Serbs. It has disturbing echoes of the Nazi ghettos of Lodz and Warsaw. "This is a stain on what is left of Israeli morality," I was told by Richard N. Veits, the former U.S. ambassador to Jordan who led a delegation from the Council on Foreign Relations to Gaza to meet Hamas leaders this past summer. "I am almost breathless discussing this subject. It is so myopic. Washington, of course, is a handmaiden to all this. The Israeli manipulation of a population in this manner is comparable to some of the crimes that took place against civilian populations fifty years ago." The U.N. special rapporteur for human rights in the occupied Palestinian territory, former Princeton University law professor Richard Falk, calls what Israel is doing to the 1.5 million Palestinians in Gaza "a crime against humanity." Falk, who is Jewish, has condemned the collective punishment of the Palestinians in Gaza as "a flagrant and massive violation of international humanitarian law as laid down in Article 33 of the Fourth Geneva Convention." He has asked for "the International Criminal Court to investigate the situation, and determine whether the Israeli civilian leaders and military commanders responsible for the Gaza siege should be indicted and prosecuted for violations of international criminal law." Falk, while condemning the rocket attacks by the militant group Hamas, which he points out are also criminal violations of international law, goes on to say that "such Palestinian behavior does not legalize Israel's imposition of a collective punishment of a life- and health-threatening character on the people of Gaza, and should not distract the U.N. or international society from discharging their fundamental moral and legal duty to render protection to the Palestinian people." "It is an unfolding humanitarian catastrophe that each day poses the entire 1.5 million Gazans to an unspeakable ordeal, to a struggle to survive in terms of their health," Falk said when I reached him by phone in California shortly before he left for Israel. "This is an increasingly precarious condition. A recent study reports that 46 percent of all Gazan children suffer from acute anemia. There are reports that the sonic booms associated with Israeli overflights have caused widespread deafness, especially among children. Gazan children need thousands of hearing aids. Malnutrition is extremely high in a number of different dimensions and affects 75 percent of Gazans. There are widespread mental disorders, especially among young people without the will to live. Over 50 percent of Gazan children under the age of 12 have been found to have no will to live." Gaza now spends 12 hours a day without power, which can be a death sentence to the severely ill in hospitals. There are few drugs and little medicine, including no cancer or cystic fibrosis medication. Hospitals have generators but often lack fuel. Medical equipment, including one of Gaza's three CT scanners, has been destroyed by power surges and fluctuations. Medical staff cannot control the temperature of incubators for newborns. And Israel has revoked most exit visas, meaning some of those who need specialized care, including cancer patients and those in need of kidney dialysis, have died. Of the 230 Gazans estimated to have died last year because they were denied proper medical care, several spent their final hours at Israeli crossing points where they were refused entry into Israel. The statistics gathered on children-half of Gaza's population is under the age of 17-are increasingly grim. About 45 percent of children in Gaza have iron deficiency from a lack of fruit and vegetables, and 18 percent have stunted growth. "It is macabre," Falk said. "I don't know of anything that exactly fits this situation. People have been referring to the Warsaw ghetto as the nearest analog in modern times." "There is no structure of an occupation that endured for decades and involved this kind of oppressive circumstances," the rapporteur added. "The magnitude, the deliberateness, the violations of international humanitarian law, the impact on the health, lives and survival and the overall conditions warrant the characterization of a crime against humanity. This occupation is the direct intention by the Israeli military and civilian authorities. They are responsible and should be held accountable." The point of this Israeli siege, ostensibly, is to break Hamas, the radical Islamic group that was elected to power in 2007. But Hamas has repeatedly proposed long-term truces with Israel and offered to negotiate a permanent truce. During the last cease-fire, established through Egyptian intermediaries in July, Hamas upheld the truce although Israel refused to ease the blockade. It was Israel that, on Nov. 4, initiated an armed attack that violated the truce and killed six Palestinians. It was only then that Hamas resumed firing rockets at Israel. Palestinians have launched more than 200 rockets on Israel since the latest round of violence began. There have been no Israeli casualties. "This is a crime of survival," Falk said of the rocket attacks. "Israel has put the Gazans in a set of circumstances where they either have to accept whatever is imposed on them or resist in any way available to them. That is a horrible dilemma to impose upon a people. This does not alleviate the Palestinians, and Gazans in particular, for accountability for doing these acts involving rocket fire, but it also imposes some responsibility on Israel for creating these circumstances." Israel seeks to break the will of the Palestinians to resist. The Israeli government has demonstrated little interest in diplomacy or a peaceful solution. The rapid expansion of Jewish settlements on the West Bank is an effort to thwart the possibility of a two-state solution by gobbling up vast tracts of Palestinian real estate. Israel also appears to want to thrust the impoverished Gaza Strip onto Egypt. There are now dozens of tunnels, the principal means for food and goods, connecting Gaza to Egypt. Israel permits the tunnels to operate, most likely as part of an effort to further cut Gaza off from Israel. "Israel, all along, has not been prepared to enter into diplomatic process that gives the Palestinians a viable state," Falk said. "They [the Israelis] feel time is on their side. They feel they can create enough facts on the ground so people will come to the conclusion a viable state cannot emerge." The use of terror and hunger to break a hostile population is one of the oldest forms of warfare. I watched the Bosnian Serbs employ the same tactic in Sarajevo. Those who orchestrate such sieges do not grasp the terrible rage born of long humiliation, indiscriminate violence and abuse. A father or a mother whose child dies because of a lack of vaccines or proper medical care does not forget. A boy whose ill grandmother dies while detained at an Israel checkpoint does not forget. All who endure humiliation, abuse and the murder of family members do not forget. This rage becomes a virus within those who, eventually, stumble out into the daylight. Is it any wonder that 71 percent of children interviewed at a school in Gaza recently said they wanted to be a "martyr"? The Israelis in Gaza, like the American forces in Iraq and Afghanistan, are foolishly breeding the next generation of militants and Islamic radicals. Jihadists, enraged by the injustices done by Israel and the United States, seek to carry out reciprocal acts of savagery, even at the cost of their own lives. The violence unleashed on Palestinian children will, one day, be the violence unleashed on Israeli children. This is the tragedy of Gaza. This is the tragedy of Israel. ? 2008 TruthDig.com Chris Hedges writes a regular column for Truthdig.com. Hedges graduated from Harvard Divinity School and was for nearly two decades a foreign correspondent for The New York Times. He is the author of "American Fascists: The Christian Right and the War on America." No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.9.18/1850 - Release Date: 12/15/2008 5:04 PM From glparramatta at greenleft.org.au Wed Dec 17 05:11:10 2008 From: glparramatta at greenleft.org.au (glparramatta) Date: Wed Dec 17 05:31:38 2008 Subject: [Mai-not] What's new at Links: John Bellamy Foster; Greece; Canada & Quebec; Climate; Australia; Venezuela; West Bengal; Western Sahara: Nepal; Bolivia Message-ID: <4948DE4E.7040503@greenleft.org.au> Subscribe free to Links - International Journal of Socialist Renewal - at http://www.feedblitz.com/f/?Sub=343373 Visit and bookmark http://links.org.au and add it to your RSS feed (http://links.org.au/rss.xml). If you would like us to consider an article, please send it to links@dsp.org.au *Please pass on to anybody you think will be interested in /Links/. * * * John Bellamy Foster: The great financial crisis: causes and consequences A November 3, 2008, public lecture by John Bellamy Foster, editor of Monthly Review and co-author (with Fred Magdoff) of The Great Financial Crisis: Causes and Consequences, which will published in January 2009. See also ``Financial implosion and stagnation: Back to the real economy'' , by John Bellamy Foster and Fred Magdoff. * Read more (watch the video) Down with the government of murderers! Greek left on the murder of Alexis Grigoropoulos (+ video; updated Dec. 12) December 10, 2008 -- Links International Journal of Socialist Renewal is publishing a number of declarations, statements, calls and articles from Greek left organisations in response to the assassination by Greek police of Alexis Grigoropoulos. * Read more Canada: Political crisis exposes national, class divisions; left debates Liberal-NDP coalition By Richard Fidler OTTAWA -- December 8, 2008 -- In a classic 19th century work, English journalist Walter Bagehot divided the constitution into two parts. The "efficient" part -- the executive (cabinet) and legislative -- were responsible for the business of government. The "dignified" part, the Queen, was to put a human face on the capitalist state. Bagehot noted, however, that the Queen also had "a hundred" powers called prerogatives, adding: "There is no authentic explicit information as to what the Queen can do...." * Read more Climate Justice Now! Network: Radical new agenda urgently needed! Poznan, Poland, December 12, 2008 - Members of the Climate Justice Now! Network - representing more than 160 organisations fighting for climate justice - issued today a joint statement calling for a radical change in direction to put climate justice and people's rights at the centre of the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change (UNFCCC) negotiations. The statement asserts (see below) that: "Solutions to the climate crisis will not come from industrialised countries and big business. Effective and enduring solutions will come from those who have protected the environment - Indigenous Peoples, women, peasant and family farmers, fisherfolk, forest dependent communities, youth and marginalised and affected communities in the global South and North." * Read more Australia: National conference strengthens Socialist Alliance for challenges ahead December 13, 2008 -- Over the weekend of December 5-7, more than 150 people attended the sixth Socialist Alliance national conference, held in the Geelong Trades Hall, Victoria. The conference opened against the backdrop of the Alliance's promising results in the November 29 Victorian local government elections, in which its candidates scored up to 18.9%. * Read more New Palestine solidarity journal: Jafa -- A Bulletin in Solidarity with Palestinian Workers and Unions Labour for Palestine (Canada) is proud to launch: Jafa -- A Bulletin in Solidarity with Palestinian Workers and Unions * Read more Quebec: Breakthrough for Qu?bec Solidaire By Paul Kellogg December 9, 2008 -- Amir Khadir, one of the two spokespersons for Qu?bec Solidaire (QS), has won a seat in the Quebec National Assembly. Among the many excellent aspects of the Qu?bec Solidaire platform is a call for the Quebec government to pass a motion opposing "any Canadian imperialist intervention in Afghanistan." The QS success represents an important advance for the social justice and anti-war movements in both Quebec and English Canada. * Read more More right-wing attacks in Venezuela: Stop the killing of trade unionists! Bring hired killers to justice! A statement by the Australia-Venezuela Solidarity NetworkDecember 10, 2008 -- The Australia-Venezuela Solidarity Network condemns the murder of Venezuelan trade unionist Simon Caldera, who was shot in Aragua state on December 4. Caldera was a leader of the pro-revolution Bolivarian Construction and Industry Union. * Read more India: West Bengal Left Front government sides with big capital, attacks peasants By Satya Sivaraman In recent times there has been no greater rupture within the Indian left movement than that precipitated by peasant struggles in Singur and Nandigram against forced acquisition of land for industrial purposes. The spectacle of West Bengal's Left Front regime, led by the Communist Party of India (Marxist) --(CPI (M) -- sending police and party cadre to gun down poor peasants fighting to protect their land not only earned it the wrath of ordinary Indian citizens everywhere but also left large sections among its own supporters deeply divided. * Read more Nepal: CPN (Maoist) national convention -- beginning the `great debate'; Split avoided By Indra Mohan Sigdel ``Basanta'' December 5, 2008 -- The Nepalese people's revolution is now at a crucial juncture, full of opportunities and challenges. On the one hand, the possibilities are so great that the party's success in developing a scientific ideological and political line consistent with the present objective conditions could lead the Nepalese people's revolution to a victorious accomplishment. And also, it could be a new opening of the world proletarian revolution in the beginning of the 21st century. While on the other hand, its failure to do so would lead to disastrous consequences, leading to an extensive demoralisation of the oppressed classes not only in Nepal but the world over. Therefore, in short, the November 17-26, 2008, national convention of our party, the Communist Party of Nepal (Maoist), had an international dimension. * Read more Bolivia's indigenous majority: Change the world by taking power By Federico Fuentes November 29, 2008 -- Having captured the imagination of progressives across the globe with scenes of indigenous uprisings confronting right-wing governments and multinationals, Bolivia has become a key focus point of discussion within the left regarding strategies for change. However, starry-eyed notions and schemas rather than reality have often influenced the views of left commentators on the revolutionary process unfolding in South America's poorest nation. * Read more Western Saharan minister: `Only one solution -- our return to our sovereign homeland' November 29, 2008 -- In October, a three-member delegation of Australian trade unionists visited the Saharawi (Western Saharan) refugee camps in the Hamada desert, south-west Algeria. Western Sahara has been illegally occupied by Morocco since 1975.Green Left Weekly/Links' Margarita Windisch spoke with Sid'Ahmed Tayeb, the minister of public health for the exiled Saharawi Arab Democratic Republic, when she visited the 27 February refugee camp. * Read more A brief history of the Western Saharan people's struggle for freedom By Margarita Windisch Spain colonised Western Sahara and its mostly nomadic people in 1884 claiming it as a protectorate of the Spanish Crown. Spanish rule over Western Sahara was codified in Berlin in 1885, where Africa was carved up among the European powers. The period of Spanish rule was marked by ongoing resistance, revolts and armed clashes with the indigenous population, with its liberation movements being brutally repressed by the Spanish authorities. A 1966 UN resolution called for Saharawi people's right to self-determination to be exercised via a referendum which never eventuated. The lack of political developments led to the formation of Popular Front for the Liberation of Saguia el Hamra and Rio de Oro (the Polisario Front) in 1973. Polisario was conceived as a nationalist front with the aim of achieving independence, and encompassed all Saharawi political trends. * Read more * * * /Links/ seeks to promote the international exchange of information, experience of struggle, theoretical analysis and views of political strategy and tactics within the international left. It is a forum for open and constructive dialogue between active socialists coming from different political traditions. It seeks to bring together those in the international left who are opposed to neoliberal economic and social policies. It aims to promote the renewal of the socialist movement in the wake of the collapse of the bureaucratic model of "actually existing socialism" in the Soviet Union and Eastern Europe. ATTENTION: Sign up for regular ``what's new'' announcement emails at http://www.feedblitz.com/f/?Sub=343373 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.globalproblematique.net/pipermail/mai-not/attachments/20081217/b2f29364/attachment.html From thinker at thelakebc.ca Wed Dec 17 09:33:16 2008 From: thinker at thelakebc.ca (Ed Deak) Date: Wed Dec 17 09:29:45 2008 Subject: [Mai-not] EU's green revolution Message-ID: <200812171529.mBHFTbTv003563@karma.reboot.ca> What I find remarkable in this plan is that it says nothing about the unnecessary transport of products that could and should be grown and made locally, cutting out the vast majority of the emissions, plus the waste of resources, demanded and caused by automated production methods, requiring huge energy inputs and then topped off by the trucks and planes. But that wouldn't be "efficient", as it would cut into the profits of the corporate mafia ? Cheers, Ed. MEPs likely to back EU's green revolution RENATA GOLDIROVA Today @ 09:21 CET EUOBSERVER / STRASBOURG - The European Parliament is heading for a "revolutionary" vote on the the set of green laws, known as the climate package, that should see the 27-nation EU boosting renewable energy, cutting greenhouse gas emissions and increasing its energy efficiency. "Today is one of those very rare occasions when politicians can really write history," EU environment commissioner Stavros Dimas told MEPs in Strasbourg on Tuesday (16 December). One of those very rare occasions when politicians can really write history? (Photo: European Parliament) Speaking ahead of the crucial vote, Mr Dimas urged EU lawmakers not to play out their possible objections during the vote, but in their respective capitals. "Everybody is a bit dissatisfied ... but the package is equitable, fair and is going to deliver [set] environmental objectives" by the end of the next decade, the commissioner said, adding that "By adopting this package we will confirm our international role in addressing climate change." During Tuesday's debate, some MEPs criticised a "blizzard" of concessions granted especially to industrial and coal-dependent member states in Central and Eastern Europe. "New member states will be bought off with a solidarity slush fund, cap and trade emissions permits will be given away when they should have been auctioned, and major players like electricity companies will get derogations that amount to super subsidies," UK Liberal Graham Watson said. "All of this pushes down the cost of carbon, cuts the cash raised and makes the emissions targets harder to hit," the MEP concluded. Claude Turmes, the green MEP from Luxembourg, said he was "less happy" about foreseen prospects of renewable energy in the transport sector. "Our planet has limits - we have limited oil resources as well as agricultural fields," he argued, criticising luxury cars fuelled by "pseudo-biofuels". "We will fight against unreasonable eco-fuel getting to the market," he said. Finish green Satu Hassi, for her part, objected to an excessive availability to outsource EU emission cuts to other countries. "I hope the governments behave in a responsible way and make sure that the major part of emissions reductions are achieved domestically," she said. But despite a series of objections, the climate package is likely to enjoy a smooth ride during the vote today (17 December). All three EU institutions - the commission, the parliament and the council representing member states - sealed an informal deal a few days ago (13 December). "You should vote for the package. It's not one proposal here, one proposal there - one affects the other. If you have objections, do it in your country," commissioner Dimas said in his last appeal to EU lawmakers. Emissions from new cars One of the sectors that are attentively watching the outcome of the parliament's vote is the automotive industry, responsible for some 12 percent of overall EU emissions of CO2. The draft law, a part of the climate package, foresees car makers bringing down emission levels from the current 160 grammes of CO2 per kilometre to 120 grammes per/km. Roughly two thirds (65 percent) of the new car fleet should meet this ambitious target by 2012, while the entire fleet is expected to comply by 2015. Even a single gram on top will result in a fine. According to Ivan Hodac from the Brussels-based European Automobile Manufacturers Association (ACEA), representing 15 major producers including VW, BMW, Renault and Fiat, the foreseen conditions are "very difficult, but something we can live with." The industry - suffering from low sales in the face of the current economic downturn - is set to ask for additional financial support to meet the green goals. So far, the European Investment Bank pledged to provide it with cheaper loans of ?16 billion between 2009-2012. "We will certainly ask for additional funding. On top of this, we need to do something to motivate the people to return to buying cars," Mr Hodac told EUobserver. EU energy commissioner Andris Piebalgs, for his part, said that all proposals included in the climate package "make a revolutionary change in the way we produce and consume energy." Cleaner cars will also "limit our growing dependency on oil," he argued. ? 2008 EUobserver.com. All rights reserved. Printed on 17.12.2008. From thinker at thelakebc.ca Wed Dec 17 09:39:31 2008 From: thinker at thelakebc.ca (Ed Deak) Date: Wed Dec 17 09:36:01 2008 Subject: [Mai-not] Fiat lux 225 Message-ID: <200812171535.mBHFZqng003987@karma.reboot.ca> To: record@cablerocket.com Subject: Fiat lux # 225 Fiat lux # 225 December 12, 2008. "Isn't it terrible, how a crooked, commie, separatist coalition is trying to take over the elected government of the country with a coup?" " Lucky, we have a Governor General who could see through the plans of the unions to destroy our democracy and install a dictatorship"." Yeah, it's them unions trying to screw up the economy!" We're buried daily under an incredible pile of propaganda in the press, and other media, under the control and used as a brainwashing machine by an international ruling sector, now in the final stages of their plans to achieve control over the world's resources and humanity. No wonder they're scared that the people of a country, already under their thumb, may just wake up and throw a 2x4 into the spokes of the wagon, now careening downhill, out of control to its final crash, so they can rush in and pick the loot up from the wreck. In the sacred name of wealth creation, of course. Today's tragic events, not only for Canada, but the whole human race, have been repeating themselves, albeit on smaller, localized scales, hundreds of times in the past few thousands years of written history. But this control racket must have originated in the caves of our ancestors, where the biggest, and strongest, with the biggest club in his hands claimed the right to rule by the will of the thousands of long forgotten gods humanity sacrificed itself to, under every age and system. But let's go back to our present, so called political crisis, which isn't a crisis at all, except in the minds of would be rulers and their ideological slaves. We had elections a couple of months ago, where, once again, and thank goodness, no party has won the majority of seats. Not necessarily the majority of the popular vote, which doesn't mean much in our so called "democracy", but seats. After all, if Mulroney could get the majority of seats to sell the country off to the US-Canada Free Trade Agreement, with only 43 percent of the votes, anything is possible, and whether it is really democratic is up to interpretation, by professional mind benders, still in the service of the jerks with the biggest clubs. Of curse, the clubs have by now been replaced with the deregulated money creating powers of the banks, to buy, conquer, colonize and enslave anything, and anybody, blessed and legalized by our parties and politicians, but the principle of the rights of the strongest dog is still the ruling factor. The cold, hard fact is that the Reform/CRAPP/ Conservative/Alliance received only a bit over one third of the popular vote, but the largest number of MPs, which gave them first shot at becoming government in our first past the post system of so called democracy. (Roll on the day of some form of proportional representation, if the VIP Lords of the Universe ever permit it to succeed) There have been a number of well documented attempts in the past, including some by Mr.Harper, to form some sort of coalition, with the commie NDP and separatist BQ, against the Liberals, but they didn't work. Probably, nobody trusted him any more, than they trust him now. However, these failed attempts are conveniently forgotten now that the shoe is on the other foot. We know it now that the plans for present coalition started on Oct.14, right after the elections, but didn't come out into the open, until Harper made his monumental screwup by trying to to become ruler without a parliamentary majority, which is now in the hands of the coalition. Coalition governments, all over the world, are penny a dozen, going way back into history. As I mentioned in my last column, Churchill formed a coalition in Britain for the war years and it worked alright, because the participants buried their silly ideological hatchets and worked for a common cause. One of the most notorious examples is Israel, the drooled over, sacred heroes of our controlled media and establishments, always governed by coalitions, often failing one after the other. So, if coalitions are OK and welcome in other countries, what's wrong with them in Canada ? The answer is very simple: A Canadian coalition may work in the interest of the people, trying to save lives in the coming depression, caused by the same people who are now propagandizing so much against it, because it would interfere with their plans to sell off and colonize the country into the hands of the international corporate mafia. Very few people have ever heard and know of the ongoing secret negotiation that started with Martin's Liberal government for the sale and elimination of any Canadian decision making process under the Security and Prosperity Partnership, the SPP, the forerunner of the North American Union, the NAU. If they succeed, we'll be governed by the self proclaimed Proto Parliament of the North American Competitiveness Council, run by ten of the biggest, unelected, corporate thieves from each of the three NAFTA countries. So, what can we expect for the future? With the Governor General browbeaten and possibly threatened with dismissal, a prerogative of the Prime Minister, she prorogued parliament until the end of January, totally against the laws of democracy and precedents. The coalition's survival under a new, unelected Liberal leader, based on his past history, is highly questionable. Which may be the best scenario on the long run, because if the government falls to a no-confidence vote, they may force the GG to call elections, which may give Harper an odd chance to gain majority on a sympathy vote and then God help us and Canada. My Christmas wish for ourselves, and this wonderful country, is the disappearance of Mr.Harper from our political scene, or at least his continuation in a minority, with the people awakening and knocking out the criminals his government represents, who now are forcing the whole world into a disaster many of us have grown up in as children, never imagining that we would see it again in our old age. Merry Christmas and very Happy Awakened New Year to everybody, especially for those, who are still living in the phony dreamworld sold to by these screwballer maniacs. From diongiles1 at aapt.net.au Wed Dec 17 22:03:38 2008 From: diongiles1 at aapt.net.au (Dion Giles) Date: Wed Dec 17 22:03:46 2008 Subject: [Mai-not] Pick up the gauntlet! Message-ID: <20081218040342.0ECDFF6E5@fep08.mfe.bur.connect.com.au> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.globalproblematique.net/pipermail/mai-not/attachments/20081218/77a8fadc/attachment.html From jmeaton at ns.sympatico.ca Wed Dec 17 23:54:01 2008 From: jmeaton at ns.sympatico.ca (Janet M Eaton) Date: Wed Dec 17 23:54:05 2008 Subject: [Mai-not] At [Latin American] meeting in Brazil, Washington Is Scorned NY Times Dec 17 Message-ID: <4949AD39.14925.563AD653@jmeaton.ns.sympatico.ca> Latin American leaders took another step away from the decades-old orbit of the United States at a meeting here that brought together nearly all of Latin America and the Caribbean, but excluded the United States and Europe. The United States became a punching bag at the three-day conference, which ends Wednesday, in this tourist haven in Brazil's Bahia State. Mr. Castro was hardly alone in assailing the United States and what he called its "neo-liberalist" model for the credit crisis, which is affecting many other economies. "In the middle of an unprecedented global crisis, our countries are discovering that they aren't part of the problem," Mr. da Silva said. "They can and should be fundamental players in the solution." The timing of the meeting, just four months before the next Summit of the Americas in Trinidad and Tobago, was significant, analysts said. With the rise of China as a principal export destination and the visit last month by President Dmitri A. Medvedev of Russia to court Latin American leaders, there are more frequent reminders that the United States is becoming an ever more distant player in the affairs of the region, said Riordan Roett, the director of the Latin American Studies program at Johns Hopkins University. fyi-janet ================================= At Meeting in Brazil, Washington Is Scorned By ALEXEI BARRIONUEVO Published: December 16, 2008 SAU?PE, Brazil - Latin American leaders took another step away from the decades-old orbit of the United States at a meeting here that brought together nearly all of Latin America and the Caribbean, but excluded the United States and Europe. And in the process of convening the leaders of 31 countries, Brazil once again flashed its credentials as the undisputed leader of Latin America. But the host country's highly popular president, Luiz In?cio Lula da Silva, an ally of the United States, did not prevent the leaders from celebrating the inclusion of Ra?l Castro, Cuba's president, and from using the occasion to attack the United States and Europe for their roles in causing the global economic crisis that is roiling this region as well. "Cuba is returning to where it always should have been," Hugo Ch?vez, Venezuela's president, told reporters. "We are complete." The United States became a punching bag at the three-day conference, which ends Wednesday, in this tourist haven in Brazil's Bahia State. Mr. Castro was hardly alone in assailing the United States and what he called its "neo-liberalist" model for the credit crisis, which is affecting many other economies. "In the middle of an unprecedented global crisis, our countries are discovering that they aren't part of the problem," Mr. da Silva said. "They can and should be fundamental players in the solution." The timing of the meeting, just four months before the next Summit of the Americas in Trinidad and Tobago, was significant, analysts said. That meeting, first convened in Miami in 1994 at the urging of President Clinton, will include the United States and Canada but will exclude Cuba. Mr. da Silva did his part to upstage the Summit of the Americas, even sending planes from Brazil's air force to ensure the presence here of presidents from poorer countries in Central America and the Caribbean. President Alan Garc?a of Peru and President ?lvaro Uribe of Colombia were the only heads of state who did not attend. Vice President Francisco Santos of Colombia said that Mr. Uribe, a staunch American ally, stayed home to cope with the aftermath of deadly floods. The meeting drew together diverse coalitions of the region's countries, including the recently formed Union of South American Nations, or Unasur, a grouping that has held meetings in recent months that also excluded the United States. "There is no question that this is about exclusion, about excluding the United States," said Peter Hakim, president of the Inter-American Dialogue, a policy research group in Washington. "Brazil is demonstrating its enormous convening power." With the rise of China as a principal export destination and the visit last month by President Dmitri A. Medvedev of Russia to court Latin American leaders, there are more frequent reminders that the United States is becoming an ever more distant player in the affairs of the region, said Riordan Roett, the director of the Latin American Studies program at Johns Hopkins University. "The United States is no longer, and will not be ever again, the major interlocutor for the countries in the region," he said. One by one, the presidents saluted the inclusion of Cuba in the meeting, an expression that indicated a frustration with the efforts by the United States to exclude Cuba from similar hemispheric deliberations, said Michael Shifter, the vice president of the Inter- American Dialogue. Many of the leaders, including Mr. da Silva, called for lifting the United States embargo of Cuba. "This is a further step in the process of ensuring that Cuba occupies its rightful place of dignity in the region and throughout the world," said Bruce Golding, the prime minister of Jamaica. But even as the Latin American leaders spoke of their collective power and growing unity, regional strains have been evident. In Bolivia, Oscar Ort?z, the president of the Senate and a prominent critic of President Evo Morales, called on Unasur, the new regional body, to investigate further recent killings in northern Bolivia, which a Unasur commission described unequivocally as a massacre. The region's leaders continue to struggle to pick a leader for Unasur. Tabar? V?squez, Uruguay's president, said in October that he would oppose the nomination of former President N?stor Kirchner of Argentina, a stance that reflects the tense relations between the countries in the past year. Tension has also been increasing between Ecuador and Brazil, with President Rafael Correa of Ecuador expelling executives from Odebrecht, a major Brazilian construction company, and disputing a loan by Brazil's powerful national development bank, which finances public works projects throughout Latin America. But these disputes may have more to do with Brazil's rising regional profile as its multinational corporations compete more aggressively for business beyond Brazil's borders. In Mr. da Silva, Brazil has a leader who has been adept at relieving tension through diplomacy, even as Washington's diplomacy has become largely inoperative in much of the region. "Lula is a leader who practices the politics of the bear hug, by thinking all problems can be solved by a warm embrace," said Larry Birns, director of the Council of Hemispheric Affairs, a research group based in Washington. Simon Romero contributed reporting from Caracas, Venezuela. From thinker at thelakebc.ca Thu Dec 18 09:33:25 2008 From: thinker at thelakebc.ca (Ed Deak) Date: Thu Dec 18 09:29:58 2008 Subject: [Mai-not] Politics at their best Message-ID: <200812181529.mBIFTkmS002494@karma.reboot.ca> Subject: The New White House Chief of Staff Emanuel Pushed Blagojevich to Appoint Obama Loyalists December 17, 2008 [] Incoming White House Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel pushed Illinois Gov. Rod Blagojevich to appoint longtime Obama adviser Valerie Jarrett to fill Barack Obama's Senate seat, and even gave Blagojevich's staff a deadline by which an appointment was expected, according to a report in today's Chicago Sun-Times. Citing sources "with the Obama camp," the Sun-Times report says Emanuel began to push for Jarrett to fill Obama's seat "just days" after the Nov. 4 election. That story also cites a source close to Emanuel admitting it is "possible" Emanuel discussed the appointment with Blagojevich chief of staff John Harris, and that a specific date for the appointment was given. The Sun-Times' revelations suggest that Emanuel was more deeply involved in discussions with Blagojevich and his staff than previously reported, and was more assertive in promoting a specific candidate. Those conversations could have contributed to Blagojevich's apparent belief that the Senate appointment held great political value. "I've got this thing and it's f**king golden," Blagojevich told one of his advisers, according to the federal-wiretap transcripts. "I'm not just giving it up for f**king nothing." On Monday, Obama said that an internal review showed that his aides "did nothing inappropriate" concerning the search for his Senate replacement, but added that at the request of U.S. Attorney Patrick Fitzgerald details of the review will not be released until next week. Blagojevich and Harris were arrested Dec. 9 after Fitzgerald released a 76-page criminal complaint alleging they conspired to sell Obama's vacant Senate seat, and pressured the Chicago Tribune to fire editorial writers who had been critical of Blagojevich. Shortly after the complaint was released, speculation began regarding the possible involvement of Emanuel, who filled the Fifth District seat in the U.S. House of Representatives that Blagojevich vacated in 2002 when he decided to run for governor. Although Obama has generally avoided commenting on the investigation, sources close to Emanuel appear to be preparing the media for further revelations. The Chicago Tribune has cited sources who say Emanuel called Harris' cell phone on Nov. 1, and presented a list of Senate replacements acceptable to Obama. Jarrett's name was reportedly on that list. Jarrett initially expressed an interest in serving in the Senate, but withdrew her name after accepting a position as a White House senior adviser. According to the Tribune, Emanuel subsequently spoke with Harris and added another name to the Obama-approved list: Lisa Madigan, the Democratic state attorney general who has taken the lead in trying to push Blagojevich from office since his arrest. Fitzgerald's criminal complaint states that many conversations recorded by the listening devices have not yet been made public. There have been many reports that conversations involving Emanuel were recorded. MyFoxChicago.com reporter Craig Wall, for example, has cited "a reliable source familiar with the investigation" that Emanuel and Blagojevich had direct discussions about the Senate seat, and that those conversations may have been caught on federal wiretaps. At one point, according to the wiretap transcripts, Blagojevich issues a profanity-laced tirade because he states the Obama administration is refusing to give him anything other than its "appreciation" in return for the Senate appointment. On Wednesday, Obama senior adviser David Axelrod offered a staunch defense of Emanuel on MSNBC. "I've known Rahm ... for a very long time. I've worked with him closely. He is someone who I think has enormous integrity and unparalleled skill. And I think we're lucky to have him. "I have no concerns about Rahm. He is an enormous asset to us and will be an enormous asset to the country, as he has been in the Congress," Axelrod said. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image00167.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 6336 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.globalproblematique.net/pipermail/mai-not/attachments/20081218/c30587ef/image00167.jpg From papadop at peak.org Thu Dec 18 09:34:42 2008 From: papadop at peak.org (MichaelP) Date: Thu Dec 18 10:25:47 2008 Subject: [Mai-not] Brit MPs in uproar after attacks on Wikileaks Message-ID: WIKILEAKS PRESS RELEASE / EDITORIAL Thu Dec 18 9:29:32 GMT 2008 "MPs in uproar after Blagojevich connected billionaire attacks Wikileaks" Wikileaks and the New Statesman are the focus of a legal attack by one of the world's richest men, Nadhami Auchi, a controversal UK-Iraqi billionaire connected to inner circle of the disgraced Illinois Governor, Rob Blagojevich. Yesterday three cross-party British MPs, including Denis McShane (Labour) and Norman Lamb (Liberal-Democrat) responded to the attack, by telling the British perliamentarians that UK courts had become a "Soviet-style organ of censorship". Mr. MacShane: "The practice of libel tourism is now an international scandal. It shames Britain and makes a mockery of the idea that Britain is a protector of core democratic freedoms". Nr. Lamb accused Mr. Auchi of using defamation threats to close down legitimate reporting. "Many are concerned that creating a link on a blog to a newspaper article--which may have been available for years... can result in action be threatened or taken. Is that legitimate?" Wikileaks released seven articles on Mr. Auchi that had been quietly removed from the on-line archives of The Guardian, The Observer, The Telegraph and The New Statesman earlier this year, a Pentagon anti-corruption report and other information relating to the billionaire's business dealings. At issue is the integrity of the electronic historical record, the the "libel tourism" crisis and whether merely linking to a document in a foreign country causes it to be "republished" in the country it was linked from. Mr. Auchi is represented by the London firm Carter Ruck, ably described by its former partner David Hooper in the Guardian as "doing for freedom of speech what the Boston strangler did for the door-to-door sales man". In the past few years Carter Ruck, Shillings and others London firms have made millions hawking the UK libel system to the world's litigious hyper-rich. According to Ruck: "[in the UK] A libel claimant does not have to prove that the words are false or to prove that he has suffered any loss. Damage is presumed... The onus is on the defendant to prove that the allegations are true." In other words, cashed-up billionaires can force a win, regardless of the merits, by strategically prolonging litigation. When publishers run out of resources to fund ongoing court costs, they instantly lose as a result of the reversed burden of proof. But it gets better. A losing publisher not only suffers their own legal costs--they must pay the plaintiff's costs as well. These costs can run into millions of pounds and are frequently tens or hundreds of times the damages. This medieval system, which evolved to protect landed Earls, Barons and other home-grown oligarchs from public accountability, is now responsible for the suppression of investsigative writers and publishers the world over. Sensitive billionaire's, from Kazakhstan to the Congo, have lined up to gut constitutional protections in the United States and elsewhere by suing in the UK. In late 2007--to give one of many examples of jurisdictional overreach--Ukranian oligarch Rinat Ahkmetov, brought two successful UK libel suits against the online journals Kyiv Post and Obozrevatel. Hugh Tomlinson QC, a UK-based libel barrister, described the case as about the London suit of "a Ukrainian attacked in a Ukrainian newspaper in Ukrainian in Ukraine". The British libel system also grants legal and spiritual succor to brutal crackdowns on journalists across the former 53 sovereign nations of the British Commonwealth. In November, Zakari Alzouma, the editor of Nigeria's independent weekly, Opinions, was charged following a libel complaint by the country's Interior Minister: Alzouma was formally charged yesterday with being "caught in the act" of libel although he had already spent four days in police custody. (Reporters Without Borders, Nov 4, 2008) Foreign writers using even the most well-regarded UK publishers have, literally, had their books destroyed. Denis MacShane, MP, told the House of Commons "What is happening when Cambridge University Press, one of the flowers of British publishing for centuries, has to pulp a book because British courts will not uphold freedom of expression". Cambridge University Press pulped all remaining copies of the "Alms for Jihad: Charity and Terrorism in the Islamic World" by US authors Robert Collins and J. Millard Burr. That action followed legal threats by Saudi billionaire Khalid Salim A. Bin Mahfouz, who made 33 other attacks using UK courts, including a successful suit against a book by US author Rachel Ehrenfeld on terrorism funding published only in the United States--a mere 27 copies of which had been mail-ordered into the UK. At the time of writing, the Cambridge University book, "Alms for Jihad" is only available on Wikileaks. Responding to the UK suits by Kahlid Bin Mahfouz and others against US authors and publishers, on Sep 27, 2008, the United States Congress unanimously passed H.R 6146, a bill designed to protect US publishers and authors against UK "libel-tourism" judgments. H.R 6146 is expected to pass the Senate and be signed by Barack Obama next year, until then US publishers have to slog it out. As for journalists in the UK and elsewhere, some are wondering if their publishing companies can be moved offshore. What tragic irony; obsequious British class-pandering, codified in UK courts and whored off to foreign billionaires, may see English writers and publishers quit England. * * * * * Nadhmi Auchi came to attention of the US press in early 2008 as a close business partner of Antoin "Tony" Rezko, the principle financial fixer for the now disgraced Governor of Illinois, Rob Blagojevich. Rezko was convicted of serious bribery, corruption and fraud charges on June 4. Blagojevich was indicted earlier this month over political corruption, which according to the FBI, includes an attempt to sell President-elect Barack Obama's vacated Senate seat. Prior to Nadhmi Auchi's own corruption conviction in 2003 by a Paris court for his role in the Elf-Aquitaine frauds, Mr. Auchi rubbed shoulders with Tony Blair's inner circle and met with two US Presidents. In the UK Auchi took to hiring a string of senior Labour party figures. By 1999 he had received, at one of his lavish London parties, a congratulatory painting signed by 130 members of the UK parliament, including the then Prime Minister, Tony Blair. According to June 2008 company filings, Baroness Marcia Falkender, a member of the UK House of Lords, continues to direct Auchi's UK private holding company. Back in January, Nadhmi Auchi appears to have become concerned about US press interest in the unfolding Rezko case. After an ABC News report on the pair, Auchi's General Mediterranean Holding SA website gmhsa.com removed a group photo of Rob Blagojevich, Auchi, and a man resembling Tony Rezko at a 2004 private dinner in Chicago arranged by Rezko. Within three months, Auchi had employed Carter Ruck to bully the UK press into taking their 2003 investigations offline. By the time of Rezko's June 4 conviction, when US journalists were looking to British publications for information on Auchi, at least six articles, which had sat unmolested for five years, had been quietly removed. Gone were stories from the electronic archives of The Guardian, The Observer, The Telegraph (and Google). Only The Times, backed by its own billionaire, Rupert Murdoch, appears to have kept its newspaper archives intact. Two brief on-line columns, in June and October, by the New Statesman's Political Editor Martin Bright reported on the archive censorship. Bright's reportage was in turn censored after threats from Carter Ruck to the New Statesman. Ruck argued that to report the censorship might lead people to look for the censored articles. Ruck also argued that linking to Wikileaks (which had "uncensored" the articles), was to republish Wikileaks in the UK. Ruck demanded substantial compensation and a statement saying that the linked material was "significantly inaccurate". On the weekend of Dec 13, the New Statesman folded rather than paying ongoing legal costs and a ludicrous front page apology now adorns the New Statesman website as the result of a mere link by one of its columnists--which was in anyevent removed within 48 hours of Carter Ruck's complaint. Nadhami Auchi had a specific interest in going after the New Statesman. Martin Bright previously worked for the Guardian and had attended Auchi's Paris trial, co-authoring two of the censored news reports. As Political Editor of the New Statesman, he had become widely read by the same UK political class that Nadhmi Auchi had courted. The attack on the New Statesman was a warning to its publishers: do to permit Martin Bright to report on Nadhmi Auchi. The attack worked-- as it had done so earlier in the year with the Guardian, the Observer or the Telegraph. None of these publications have mentioned Nadhmi Auchi's name since that time, despite the US election, Auchi's extensive dealings in the UK and the spectacular Rezko and Blagojevich cases. All four publications have kept their readers in the dark; tying "will redact for the wealthy" to the same masthead as "fearless journalism" does not engender reader loyalty. Yet, over time, this strategy of quiet appeasement has lead to the UK having the worst press protections in the Western world. As long as the citizenry is kept ignorant, there will be no public outrage--and no political will to reform. The removal of politically substantive documents from the electronic record show that George Orwell's warning of "He who controls the present controls the past and he who controls the past controls the future" has never been truer. Centralized newspaper and search engine archives have proved to be a censor's dream--in a way that distributed library archives never could. While paper archives still exist for six of the articles, readers do not know they need to look. Publishers redact their their indexes, camouflaging removals with "not found". Fine investigative reports cease to exist -- and then cease to have ever have existed. The pages of history, including the "papers of record", are our common heritage. They are, as Orwell reminds us, not merely a window into the past, but the means by which we chart our future. Wikileaks is doing its part to protect their integrity. Are you? For more information, see: http://wikileaks.org/wiki/Nadhmi_Auchi From siamdave at yahoo.ca Thu Dec 18 22:15:20 2008 From: siamdave at yahoo.ca (Dave Patterson) Date: Thu Dec 18 22:16:20 2008 Subject: [Mai-not] Fwd: spying References: <200812191111310453.00A36C6D@smtp-adsl.totonline.net> Message-ID: <200812191115200234.00A6EA1A@smtp-adsl.totonline.net> Hi all Cdn mainotters - it occurred to me to talk to the dragon itself, I don't know if it will bring any response or not, but no harm in trying - whatever rot there is in the system, I have no doubt there are still many good people in the mid levels just doing their best, and maybe not even thinking about things like this, and being Christmas and all, the gift of knowlege might be appreciated or something. And I thought then that if more than one person were to seek similar information, who knows what we might learn? If you find these questions as interesting as do I, you could send some portion or all of this letter, changed or modified if you like, to your MP or MLA or someone like that, well, who knows, as I said, what one might learn? I am sending straight to the Bank of Canada here ref1@bankofcanada.ca (from here http://bankofcanada.ca/en/contact.html ) so it is probably best if you do not send there, as more than one letter like this arriving at the same time would probably arouse suspicions or something (you could, of course, saying something like you had learned this letter had been sent, and to please CC you the answer, as you are wondering about the same stuff, etc...). Just a thought Dear Bank of Canada, I am trying to understand the current financial crisis, and have a few questions that you can maybe help me with. I have read over as much as I could on your website ( http://bankofcanada.ca/en/index.html ) of what appeared to be relevant, but a few questions that seem rather central to me still linger. 1. You say that the Bank cannot just 'print money' to pay off the national debt etc, as that would just lead to inflation (Q4 here - http://bankofcanada.ca/en/faq/faq_bank_monetary.html ). But - if, as I understand it, commercial banks currently create a very large amount of the Canadian money supply (upwards of 90%) through creating credit (as you comfirm in one of your pages, although not the exact amount), then to avoid inflation, couldn't the Bank restrict the money-creating ability of the commerical banks to the same extent it created money 'debt-free', thus in a 'total amount of money available' neutral way, not causing inflation? It is still unclear to me why the Bank has not in this way been creating some part of the nation's money supply in this fashion (as it apparently did in the years between 1938 with the creation of the Bank of Canada and the early 1970s, years of, apparently, stability vis a vis the money supply, inflation, things like that), especially back in the 1980's, as the current huge 'national debt' was created through considerable borrowing from commercial banks from the late 70s through the early 90s, plus accruing interest etc. It seems to me that, if the Bank of Canada had of created that borrowed money at zero or nominal interest (not a lot of point in charging much interest when you are essentially transferring money from one pocket to another), then this huge national debt would never have been created, and we would never have paid the huge amount of interest we have paid on it (I don't have any exact figures, but that total 'service charges' figure, since the late 70s when the serious commercial borrowing began, has to be close to a trillion dollars, and probably double that if we consider provincial and major municipal debt incurred during the same period, which, it seems to me again, could and should have been financed through the Bank of Canada). (I note that today Finance Minister Flaherty is talking about running a deficit of some $30 billion in the coming budget to deal with the crisis - wouldn't it make a lot more sense, in terms of minimizing future government interest debt, to finance that deficit through the Bank of Canada than through commercial sources?) It's not at all clear to me why a sovereign country such as Canada should allow commercial banks to create most of the money supply as credit, which obviously means great 'windfall' profits to such organisations and has other financial implications such as a built-in inflation driver through the interest paid on the national money supply each year - it seems to me that a democratic government should be responsible for a substantial portion, if not all, of this money creation. Commercial banks could still exist, of course, but only on the basis most people think they currently exist - people deposit money, and they loan out some portion of those deposits - but they don't use some 'multiplier' to then create ten or 20 or more times the amount of those deposits essentially out of thin air, and charge interest on that money they created themselves - creating money should be the purview of the government alone, it seems to me. Again, I note that the popular response is that 'governments' creating money is inflationary, but surely you wise-in-the-ways-of-finance folks there at the arm's-length Bank of Canada are (a) above commercial influence, and (b) understand that creating too much money is inflationary, and thus would be careful not to do that? Under responsible, democratic control, I have to think that having the Bank of Canada create most or all of our money would actually be considerably less inflationary in every way than allowing commercial banks, driven to at least a tendency to excessive loans (i.e. money creation) and thus inflation, credit bubbles, etc, through the need to maintain high profits for their investors. Such a policy would also, I would note, completely prevent the current deflationary-recessionary spiral caused by commercial banks reducing lending, and thus retracting the economy, out of commercial interests - Bank of Canada management, geared solely towards maintaining a stable economy rather than driven by consideration of private profits, would not be faced with such a choice. (there are many other positives as well to having the Bank of Canada create our money, but the letter grows long already) 2. Can you give me any kind of rough breakdown of just how much money, real and 'credit' money, there actually is in Canada? The nearest info I can find indicates that there is about $50 billion of 'real' cash (bank notes and coins) in circulation, and at least $2 trillion in debt in the country (government, bank and business), but I do not know how much of that debt was established through non-commercial bank sources (i.e. Granny Sarah using savings to buy CSBs, or consumer loans directly with department stores, etc). Well, I have many other questions, but I fear to make you reluctant to answer if I go on to long - if you could shed some light on these two questions, it may answer others inter alia as well. (To recap briefly the questions: 1. Why does the Bank of Canada not create more of the money supply of Canada, in a non-inflationary way by concurrently restricting the amount of money commercial institutions create? and 2. Do you have a rough breakdown of the total money supply in Canada (Bank of Canada 'cash' ______, commercial bank created debt money ________ ? (I realise you can have no accurate figures here, but roughly)) Thanks very much for your time - *********** END FORWARDED MESSAGE *********** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.globalproblematique.net/pipermail/mai-not/attachments/20081219/c636927a/attachment.html From creuss at bluewin.ch Fri Dec 19 04:25:00 2008 From: creuss at bluewin.ch (Christoph Reuss) Date: Fri Dec 19 04:27:28 2008 Subject: [Mai-not] WEF interactive YouTube portal Message-ID: Contribute your video message to the WEF Davos (January 2009): http://www.youtube.com/davos ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ SpamWall: Mail to this addy is deleted unread unless it contains the keyword "igve". From ptuffley at XTRA.CO.NZ Fri Dec 19 06:18:33 2008 From: ptuffley at XTRA.CO.NZ (Peter Tuffley) Date: Fri Dec 19 06:19:24 2008 Subject: [Mai-not] Credit Suisse Eats Its Own Dog Food... Message-ID: A story with a rather piquant irony: http://www.bloggingstocks.com/2008/12/18/credit-suisse-eats-its-own-dog-food/ P Opening paragraphs: I have to hand it to Brady Dougan, CEO of Credit Suisse. He has shown some fiendishly clever imagination in paying bonuses to his managing directors. Instead of giving them multimillion dollar cash bonuses this year, he's paying them in the very thing that has brought Wall Street to its knees -- $5 billion of its leveraged loans and commercial mortgage-backed debt. This move alone demonstrates that Credit Suisse is using its brain. By doing this, Dougan keeps the future losses of $5 billion worth of its toxic waste from cutting into Credit Suisse's earnings. Since the alternative was giving them no bonus at all, those managing directors will have a chance to share the emotions of all the people to whom they sold that toxic waste. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.globalproblematique.net/pipermail/mai-not/attachments/20081220/699dd19a/attachment.html From papadop at peak.org Fri Dec 19 07:56:29 2008 From: papadop at peak.org (MichaelP) Date: Fri Dec 19 08:47:36 2008 Subject: [Mai-not] Financial crisis results from greed Message-ID: http://www.publicvalues.ca/ViewArticle.cfm?Ref=00247 Public Values How the World Bank and the IFC helped create the financial crisis Lending shared important features with subprime loans in the US. by Paulo dos Santos, The Bretton Woods Project *Paulo L dos Santos is a professor of economics at the School of Oriental and African Studies at the University of London. The financial crisis seemed to come out of the blue, but Paulo dos Santos of the University of London argues that the ground was laid by financial sector privatisation, liberalisation and deregulation. Far from these trends being confined to the rich world, the World Bank and the IFC have played a key role in pushing these policies throughout emerging markets, exposing them to the fallout of the financial crisis. __________________________________________ November 27, 2008 -- The World Bank wasted little time in using the financial distress gripping middle-income economies to promote an agenda of privatisation and cuts in state social spending. Yet the orthodox prescription of passing the costs of a financial crisis on to ordinary people through cuts in social services is especially objectionable in the current situation. It will make the recession worse, and it poses a breathtaking double-standard at a time when states in the US and Western Europe prepare to spend more to minimise the damage wreaked on their economies by an unfolding global recession. It is also particularly offensive given that the World Bank's advocacy and programming over the past ten years directly contributed to the financial vulnerabilities now straining Latin American, East Asian and Central and Eastern European economies. Bank economists led the policy push for the entry of top international banks into middle-income economies. The International Finance Corporation (IFC) provided handsome financial support to the development of many of the financial models and instruments at the heart of this crisis, including consumer and mortgage lending, loan securitisation, mortgage-backed securities, collateralised debt obligations, and originate-and-distribute business models in those countries. Through these actions the World Bank Group helped install the very financial practices, instruments, institutions and imbalances that triggered the current financial crisis. As in the US, credit systems became focused on lending to individual households, leading to growing personal debt, and to the transfer of rising shares of wage income to the financial system in the form of debt servicing payments and various fees. In many countries, this boom in credit to households resulted in speculative real estate booms and busts, as well as rising trade deficits driven by consumption expenditures. Finally, financial systems developed serious vulnerabilities to financial disruptions in international money markets and in the home economies of foreign banks. As recent developments in Central and Eastern European economies suggest, banks from developed economies have been central to the spread of the current financial crisis to middle-income countries. Facing a liquidity crunch in their home economies, these banks have cut credit in emerging markets. More significantly, their lending and funding behaviour over the past ten years created serious economic and financial imbalances and vulnerabilities in host countries. For now the worst consequences of these policies have been borne only by a number of Central and Eastern European economies. But across the developing world many vulnerabilities remain, for which those today raising the mantra of 'fiscal discipline' bear significant responsibility. PROMOTING FOREIGN BANKS The World Bank led research and advocacy efforts in favour of the entry of foreign banks into developing countries, while consistently downplaying concerns about the potential dangers this policy posed. As early as 1988, the Bank advocated the entry of foreign banks in the Philippines, shortly after US negotiators first broached including financial services into the Uruguay Round of trade talks. By the late 1990s, Bank economists had provided the most influential and widely cited theoretical and empirical research papers motivating the entry of foreign banks into developing countries. Their arguments were chiefly microeconomic. Foreign banks would benefit developing countries by making their banking systems more 'efficient', lowering overhead costs, narrowing interest-rate spreads, and reducing bank profits. They would also introduce 'sophisticated' products and practices, foster the development of ratings agencies and spark better regulation. Few attempts were made to conceptualise the impact of foreign-bank entry on development beyond such narrow micro-level metrics. In fact, Bank economists dismissed concerns that foreign banks may 'cherry pick' and focus heavily on particular market segments, arguing such behaviour would simply be a part of 'market competition'. During the 1990s a range of states removed restrictions on foreign banks, typically with World Bank support and following a financial crisis. Foreign banks quickly expanded into Latin American, Central and Eastern European and many Asian markets. In Mexico, banks from the US, Spain and Britain came to control about 80 percent of the banking system. In Europe, particularly the new EU member states, Austrian, Italian, German, Swedish and Greek banks now dominate banking systems. Many of these banks have received considerable IFC financial support during these expansions. Raiffeisen International, an Austrian bank operating across Central and Eastern Europe, received significant equity and hundreds of millions of dollars in loans from the IFC. REORIENTATION OF CREDIT Foreign banks reoriented credit away from the production of goods and services, and towards loans to individuals. They introduced or vastly expanded credit card lending, consumer loans, mortgages, and 'payday loans' guaranteed by future wage earnings. These activities yielded high profits that drew on the wage income of ordinary people, and prompted surviving domestic banks to follow suit. In Mexico mortgage and consumption lending rose in tandem with the entry of foreign banks, from 15 to 45 percent of all lending between 1999 and 2007. In Estonia, where over 98 percent of bank assets were controlled by foreign institutions by 2004, loans to individuals rose from 10 to 46 percent of all lending between 1995 and the summer of 2008. In the Hungarian financial system, one third of all lending was allocated to households by early 2008. Corporate reports suggest this lending imposes very high costs on ordinary people. In Mexico, Citigroup and HSBC received $1.9 billion in profits last year from lending to households and related personal financial services. Just in the first six months of this year, Raifeissen International raised 288 million euros in profits from its segment dedicated to lending and financial services to individuals. By 2006 evidence pointing to these shifts and their likely negative impact on development was mounting. Yet Bank economists continued to advocate the expansion of foreign entry on the grounds they fostered microeconomic 'efficiency'. By that point the reorientation of credit triggered by foreign banks had already shaped serious economic and financial imbalances. >From 2000 onwards the boom in consumption lending significantly pushed up imports, particularly in Central and Eastern Europe. Growing trade deficits meant growing reliance on capital inflows. Further, the boom in mortgage lending inflated real estate bubbles across the region. Both processes were boosted by a particular innovation promoted by foreign banks: lending denominated in euros and Swiss francs. Such loans were increasingly extended to individuals, particularly following the entry into the EU by eight Central and Eastern European countries in 2004. This lending shared important features with subprime loans in the US. First, it often contained predatory elements, taking advantage of documented tendencies by ordinary borrowers to focus exclusively on immediate monthly repayments instead of overall debt burden when taking on a mortgage. As with 'teaser rates' in the US, banks played up low monthly payments and higher loan amounts that could be obtained with foreign currency loans, often without explaining the risks posed by exchange-rate movements. Second, foreign banks helped place ordinary borrowers in risky speculative financial positions, sustainable only through a combination of ongoing rises in home prices and a possible future adoption of the euro by the host economy. And third, this lending was driven and boosted by easy access to cheap wholesale funds in international money markets. The current financial turbulence has exposed how fragile many Central and Eastern European economies became as a result. The credit crunch dramatically reversed capital flows. This is likely to result in devaluations that would impose prohibitive debt servicing costs and mass insolvencies on ordinary people who took out seemingly cheap loans in euros or Swiss-francs from 'sophisticated' foreign banks. The World Bank bears considerable responsibility for this outcome. CREDIT AND SECURITIZATION Since 2000, the IFC provided significant financial support to banks and other financial firms focusing on credit to individuals, including 'payday loans' to low and mid-income households, broader consumption lending, mortgages and mortgage securitisation. According to its own individual project disclosures, since 2002 the IFC has approved the allocation of at least $3.1 billion to support this lending in major Latin American and Central and Eastern European economies. At the same time less than $2 billion have been allocated to support lending to small and medium enterprises in those countries. Through its support to household lending, the IFC helped fuel lending booms, economic imbalances, and the spread of problematic financial instruments and business models. The majority of these programmes targeted mortgage lending as part of broader efforts to provide market-based solutions to the serious housing problems in those economies. In this regard, securitisation was to unlock international financial markets and make them 'work for the poor'. Almost $1.8 billion of IFC support was aimed to promote the originate-and-distribute model in mortgage lending, where lenders do not hold, monitor or service loans, but pass them in bundles to capital-market investors. The IFC was instrumental in the development of mortgage and consumer-credit securitisation in Mexico and Central and Eastern Europe. It argued that secondary markets and securitisation would help support 'the efficient functioning of domestic and international financial markets'. Through these methods the IFC helped spread the same 'risk-management' techniques, instruments and ratings practices that contributed to the US subprime crisis. This added to the current financial vulnerabilities in Latin American and Central and Eastern European economies. Loan securitisation is based on the idea that future loan performance will on average be in line with past performance. This may be adequate when trying to predict performance from long-term historical data on similar loans under equivalent economic conditions. But recent lending booms targeted new borrowers with no borrowing history, and took place during the unusually benign macroeconomic picture of recent years. While the booms lasted this raised few questions, not least because these activities remained highly profitable. But the current financial instability and the developing global recession will affect borrowers in unprecedented ways, leading to unforeseen defaults, underperforming assets, and further financial instability. This is a serious concern in Mexico. Since 2004 the IFC channeled $718 million to support the issuance of more than $4 billion in mortgage-backed securities, most of which were backed by loans to low- and middle-income households. As this issuance expanded, lenders appear to have been taking on increasingly risky mortgages. More recent vintages of those securities are seeing a much more rapid rise in delinquency and default rates than older ones. As the Mexican economy will likely be adversely affected by a downturn in the US, not least through a fall in remittances, default rates will become much higher than estimated during the 'good times'. AND NOW WHAT? Unsurprisingly, the actions of the Bank are guided by liberal economic orthodoxy. Housing problems are to be solved through the development of capital markets. Individual competition in banking markets will supposedly guarantee allocations of capital that are optimal for economic development, so long as adequate prudential regulation is in place. Throughout, Bank policies created profitable business for leading financial firms, drawing on growing shares of wage income in developing countries. In a real sense, liberalisation has not made financial markets work for the poor; it has put the poor to work for financial markets. In exchange, financial markets created serious imbalances in rich and developing economies alike. Now the Bank demands the poor shoulder the costs of the crisis. The crisis offers an opportunity to contest not simply such policies and demands, but also their pro-market underpinnings. The social provision of quality housing needs to be advanced as an alternative to private provision through capital markets, which has proven so damaging and expensive for ordinary people. The same applies to pensions, health-care, and education, where privatisation has increasingly forced individuals to access capital markets through banks, investment funds and insurance companies to meet their basic needs. More broadly, the crisis helps underscore the inadequacy of decentralised, profit-driven decisions by financial firms as a foundation for economic development. Alternatives grounded on conscious economic management need urgently to be put back on the development agenda. The Bretton Woods Project works to scrutinise and influence the World Bank and IMF. LINKS AND SOURCES The World Bank, the IFC and the antecedents of the financial crisis, by Paulo dos Santos, Bretton Woods Prjoect, November 27 2008 Bretton Woods Project homepage Public Values is a project of the Golden Lake Institute and the online publication StraightGoods From thinker at thelakebc.ca Fri Dec 19 16:51:41 2008 From: thinker at thelakebc.ca (Ed Deak) Date: Fri Dec 19 16:49:06 2008 Subject: [Mai-not] Mysterious tracks in the snow Message-ID: <200812192248.mBJMme9X032003@karma.reboot.ca> I was in the chicken yard, when I saw these mysterious tracks in the snow, and couldn't figure out what they were ? It took some closer look to interpret them and they're really funny. We have some fresh snow over a harder layer below and the tracks are mice jumping with all 4 legs and landing in the snow. One can see the outline of the body and the tail. Never saw anything like it before. The mice are working and eating the grass under the snow, and in the Spring we can see whole areas, virtually torn up, with miles of tunnel like ruts, where hundreds of them have been working and eating during the usual 5 Winter months. Sometimes we can see them jumping out and immediately burying themselves in the snow but in the 30 Winters we've spent here, I've never seen mice doing long distance jumps, like a kangaroo. Cheers, Ed. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: DSC00322.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 213121 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.globalproblematique.net/pipermail/mai-not/attachments/20081219/fe6bfd99/DSC00322-0001.jpe -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: DSC00323.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 916312 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.globalproblematique.net/pipermail/mai-not/attachments/20081219/fe6bfd99/DSC00323-0001.jpe From thinker at thelakebc.ca Fri Dec 19 16:56:11 2008 From: thinker at thelakebc.ca (Ed Deak) Date: Fri Dec 19 16:52:34 2008 Subject: [Mai-not] More rodents at work Message-ID: <200812192252.mBJMqQ9X032221@karma.reboot.ca> http://action.foe.org/pressRelease.jsp?press_release_KEY=449 For Immediate Release December 19, 2008 Contact: Nick Berning: 202-222-0748 Marcie Keever: 415-544-0790, ext. 23, mkeever@foe.org BREAKING: EPA Allows Cruise Ships to Dump Polluted Graywater One Nautical Mile from U.S. Shores WASHINGTON, D.C.?The Environmental Protection Agency today published a permit that will allow cruise ships to dump unlimited quantities of untreated graywater?a harmful pollutant?into the ocean just a mile from U.S. shores. ?The Bush EPA is ignoring its own scientific findings by issuing this permit, which will allow harmful pollution near U.S. shores,? said Marcie Keever, Clean Vessels Campaign Director at Friends of the Earth. ?The Environmental Protection Agency knows that pollution from cruise ships and other vessels is out of control and getting worse. This permit will not protect the health of our oceans or the people who use them.? The permit issued today was a final Clean Water Act General Permit for vessel pollution discharges. The permit allows cruise ships to dump untreated graywater one nautical mile from U.S. shores if they are travelling at speeds above six knots. The permit also requires cruise ships to monitor their graywater discharges only once every three months, leaving them free to ignore malfunctioning systems the other 361 days of the year. Cruise ship graywater contains contaminants such as oil and grease, metals, pesticides, viruses, fecal coliform bacteria from human sewage, medical and dental waste, detergents, and cleaners. A large cruise ship on a one-week voyage can generate one million gallons?which would fill 33 large swimming pools?of graywater. The EPA finds in an assessment report to be finalized this month that untreated graywater from cruise ships is above safe levels. Despite this finding, the permit issued today continues to allow cruise ships to discharge such graywater. Significantly, the EPA has also found that it would cost cruise ships only $7.09 per passenger to treat graywater using the best water treatment technology, and yet the permit fails to require treatment of polluted discharges beyond one nautical mile. The EPA developed the permit in response to litigation from environmental groups. Their lawsuit overturned an erroneous EPA regulation that for the past 35 years exempted all vessels from the permitting requirements of the Clean Water Act. The EPA permit is available online at http://cfpub.epa.gov/npdes/home.cfm?program_id=350. ### Friends of the Earth (www.foe.org) is the U.S. voice of the world?s largest grassroots environmental network, with member groups in 77 countries. Since 1969, Friends of the Earth has fought to create a more healthy, just world. From jmeaton at ns.sympatico.ca Sat Dec 20 12:44:19 2008 From: jmeaton at ns.sympatico.ca (Janet M Eaton) Date: Sat Dec 20 12:42:46 2008 Subject: [Mai-not] Power to the people - The Ottawa Citizen Message-ID: <494D04C3.28058.6347270D@jmeaton.ns.sympatico.ca> Everyone will be appalled by Premier Danny Williams' threat to reclaim his province's hydro and resource rights from the Montreal- based forestry giant that is planning to shut down a Grand Falls- Windsor sawmill. Everyone, that is, except "the people." In fact, what is truly shocking about Williams' move is its boldness, clarity and defiance of unquestioned shibboleths. We are not used to decisive political leadership in this country, especially not in the service of the common good. We have become convinced that it is financially risky, provocative, even dangerous, for our elected officials to do what they are elected to do: protect the public nterest, not just the balance sheets of private enterprises. .... Williams is dismissed, in some circles, as a northern Hugo Chavez, simply for making the reasonable case that the resources of a province should belong to its people. Meanwhile, Harper and his business chorus, after deploring deficits and increased government spending for years, have completely changed course. If that doesn't lead us to mistrust the increasingly shopworn claims of our political elites, it is hard to imagine what will. -Susan Riley, Ottawa Citizen, Dec 19 fyi-janet ============================= http://www.ottawacitizen.com/Business/Power+people/1093581/story.html Ottawa Citizen Power to the people By Susan Riley 19 December, 2008 10:00 AM ? Everyone will be appalled by Premier Danny Williams' threat to reclaim his province's hydro and resource rights from the Montreal- based forestry giant that is planning to shut down a Grand Falls- Windsor sawmill. Everyone, that is, except "the people." In fact, what is truly shocking about Williams' move is its boldness, clarity and defiance of unquestioned shibboleths. We are not used to decisive political leadership in this country, especially not in the service of the common good. We have become convinced that it is financially risky, provocative, even dangerous, for our elected officials to do what they are elected to do: protect the public interest, not just the balance sheets of private enterprises. So while Williams acts for Newfoundland and Labrador (and the forestry company contemplates a NAFTA challenge) elsewhere our political leaders wring their hands, issue conflicting comments about the economic downturn, and dither. The country's finance ministers met in Saskatoon this week, for instance, and agreed, again, to accelerate long-planned infrastructure projects -- to provide new work for carpenters, engineers, domestic suppliers and others in advance of a worsening recession. The sooner those new jobs are created, the less the anxiety for some families, the less demand for employment insurance and welfare and the more money people have to spend on other goods. That's the theory, at least. But to have an impact, say most experts (and Barack Obama recently endorsed this view), the stimulus has to be large and immediate. Unfortunately, this sense of urgency seems to have run smack into the natural timidity and fear of innovation that characterizes Canada's political class, party label notwithstanding. The tendency to wait for signals from the United States, to examine every angle of a possible solution until the emergency has passed, to "consult" extensively without really listening, is a disabling national trait. Not surprisingly, the finance ministers emerged with nothing concrete to announce -- not a single project, no dollar figure, nothing but furrowed brows and ominous warnings. Some say the details have to wait until mid-January when Prime Minister Stephen Harper meets the premiers. (Williams might want to bring firecrackers to accelerate the process.) Maybe help will finally arrive in the Jan. 27 budget. This would be a lightening-fast response by government standards, if it actually happens. But it still comes months later that it should -- and, in terms of preparing Canada for the new economy, years too late. We mostly squandered more than a decade of widespread prosperity and rising surpluses -- with a few exceptions, including additional federal funding for academic research, and re-equipping the armed forces. But successive federal governments refused to take the lead in tackling climate change, and, as a byproduct, establishing a foothold for Canada in the burgeoning green economy. Health care, all these studies and billions later, is still an inefficient mess. The many proposals to "green" the staggering auto sector were ignored. (The notion of a Canadian-built car, designed to handle our climate and pollute less, has been relegated to the realm of fantasy in a political culture bereft of imagination and confidence.) Governments need to be prudent, of course, before pouring billions into dubious technologies or declining industries (unless those industries are in politically sensitive areas). But some initiatives seem obvious and overdue, investments that will pay both economic and environmental dividends. For instance, Liberal leader Michael Ignatieff emerged from a meeting with Quebec Premier Jean Charest the other day to pronounce Charest's cherished high-speed train corridor from Montreal to Windsor "a magnificent idea." It has been a magnificent idea for more than a decade. (Would the original railway have even been built under our current leadership?) The same is true of retro-fitting houses to make them energy- efficient, and, in the process, creating jobs in major cities. A proposed east-west hydro grid sounds promising, too, as a way of easing unemployment in remote communities and reducing greenhouse emissions. And how long will municipalities, provinces and the federal government fight over public transit before something is finally built? Fixing bridges? What's the hold-up? It shouldn't take a 200-member economic advisory council to figure out where they are. What needs a jolt, as much as the economy, is an ideologically hidebound mind-set. Free enterprise Alberta, for instance, failed to use its wealth to prepare for the post-oil era and is now facing deficits and pleading with Ottawa for tax breaks for the oil sands. Williams is dismissed, in some circles, as a northern Hugo Chavez, simply for making the reasonable case that the resources of a province should belong to its people. Meanwhile, Harper and his business chorus, after deploring deficits and increased government spending for years, have completely changed course. If that doesn't lead us to mistrust the increasingly shopworn claims of our political elites, it is hard to imagine what will. Susan Riley writes on national politics. E-mail sriley.work@gmail.com ? Copyright (c) The Ottawa Citizen ? From papadop at peak.org Sat Dec 20 20:21:22 2008 From: papadop at peak.org (MichaelP) Date: Sat Dec 20 21:14:28 2008 Subject: [Mai-not] Unions Come to Smithfield Message-ID: http://www.prospect.org/cs/articles?article=unions_come_to_smithfield Unions Come to Smithfield On Dec. 11, Smithfield workers were not just celebrating a vote count. They'd just defeated one of the longest, most bitter anti-union campaigns in modern U.S. labor history. David Bacon | December 17, 2008 | *David Bacon is a writer and photographer, and associate editor for New America Media. He is the author of The Children of NAFTA and sits on the Comprehensive Immigration Reform Committee of the Bay Area Immigrant Rights Coalition. ############# When immigration agents raided Smithfield Food's huge North Carolina slaughterhouse two years ago, union organizer Eduardo Pea compared the impact to a "nuclear bomb." The day after, people were so scared that most of the plant's 5,000 employees didn't show up for work. The lines where they kill and cut apart 32,000 hogs every day were motionless. "Workers think it's happening because people were getting organized," said Vargas at the time. Yet on Dec. 11, 2008, when the votes were counted in the same packing plant, 2,041 workers had voted to join the United Food and Commercial Workers (UFCW), while just 1,879 had voted against it. That stunning reversal set off celebrations in house trailers and ramshackle homes in Tarheel, Red Springs, St. Pauls, and all the tiny working-class towns spread from Fayetteville down to the South Carolina border. Relief and happiness are understandable in North Carolina, where union membership is the lowest in the country. But Smithfield workers were not just celebrating a vote count. They'd just defeated one of the longest, most bitter anti-union campaigns in modern U.S. labor history. Their victory was the product of an organizing strategy that accomplished what many have said that U.S. unions can no longer do -- organize huge, privately owned factories. In 1994 and 1997, Smithfield workers voted in two union-representation elections and rejected the UFCW both times. In 1997 the head of plant security, Danny Priest, told local sheriffs he expected violence on election day. Police in riot gear then lined the walkway into the slaughterhouse, and workers had to file past them to cast their ballots. At the end of the vote count, union activist Ray Shawn was beaten up inside the plant. Three years later, Priest, while still head of plant security, became an auxiliary deputy sheriff, and plant security officers were given the power to arrest and detain people at work. The company maintained a holding area for detainees in a trailer on the property, which workers called the company jail. (Smithfield gave up its deputized force and detention center in 2005.) Management used such extensive intimidation tactics that both elections were thrown out by the National Labor Relations Board. In 2006 the NLRB forced Smithfield to rehire workers fired in 1994 for union activity and pay them $1.1 million. That was a victory for the union, but workers on the line could also easily see that Smithfield lawyers kept union supporters out of work for over a decade, in violation of the law. In 2003 contract workers for QSI, a company that cleans the machinery at night, finally challenged that atmosphere of fear. According to Julio Vargas, a QSI employee, "The wages were very low, and we had no medical insurance. When people got hurt, after being taken to the office, they made them go back to work and wear pink helmets [to humiliate them]. We were fed up." Led by Vargas, the cleaning crew refused to go in to work. The company negotiated, and workers won concessions. The following week, however, those identified as ringleaders, like Vargas, lost their jobs. Nevertheless, a new group of UFCW organizers understood the importance of that work stoppage. The union set up a workers' center in nearby Red Springs, holding classes on English and labor rights. Vargas and other fired workers went to work for the UFCW, organizing discontent over high line speed and its human cost in injuries. Workers began to stop production lines to get the company to talk with them about health and safety problems. In April 2006, as immigrant protests spread across the country, 300 Smithfield workers stayed out of work and marched through the streets of nearby Wilmington. On May 1 they paraded again, this time by the thousands. Those heady days, however, were followed by a series of immigration-enforcement actions orchestrated between the company and Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) agents. On Oct. 30, 2006, the plant's human resources department sent letters to hundreds of immigrant workers, saying the Social Security numbers they'd provided when they were hired didn't match the government's database. Managers gave them two weeks to come up with new ones. "On November 13, over 30 were escorted out of the plant," recalled Pea. The following Thursday, more than 300 workers walked out in protest. They met at a local hotel, came up with a list of demands, and got church leaders to intercede with the company. Smithfield agreed to rehire the terminated workers for 60 days. "It's hard to imagine how empowered people felt," Pea recalled. The success of the workplace action impressed African American workers, who at the time made up about 40 percent of the work force. Union supporters collected 4,000 signatures asking the company to give employees the day off on the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr.'s birthday. A delegation took the petitions to the human resources office, but a company vice president refused to accept them. When they were denied the holiday, 400 workers didn't come in anyway and virtually shut down the plant again. "Unity between immigrant Latino and African American workers was essential to organizing a union," said Gene Bruskin, then the director of the UFCW's Justice at Smithfield campaign, and the drive's principal strategist. In the earlier campaigns, divisions between the two groups contributed to the union's defeat. Nine days after the Martin Luther King Day action, ICE agents came out to the plant in their first raid. After they arrested 21 people for deportation and questioned hundreds more in the factory lunchroom, fear grew so intense that most workers didn't show up the following day. A few months later, a similar raid took place. The percentage of immigrants began to decline as many Latino workers were forced out of the plant. Eventually, the ratio between blacks and Latinos was reversed. The immigrant work force shrank to about 40 percent, while the percentage of African Americans rose to 60 percent. At that point, however, African American workers became more active in the unionization campaign. Union workers eventually collected the signatures of about half the plant's employees, demanding that the company agree to recognize the UFCW. Meanwhile, UFCW organizers began using the violation of workers' rights to mobilize customer pressure against Smithfield. Union and community activists collected thousands of signatures on petitions asking store chains to find another pork supplier, and the city of Boston stopped purchasing Smithfield products. Inside the plant, militant activity began to rise again. One key moment came when Juan Navarro wrote "Union Time" with a felt pen on his helmet. Supervisors called him in and took away his helmet. Navarro worked on the kill floor where a majority of the workers are black. When he went back to the line, the other workers decided to back him up. "Union Time" appeared on their helmets, too, and eventually spread throughout the plant, becoming the slogan of the union campaign. Smithfield was even forced to apologize to Navarro. In the back room of the tiny Mexican market down the road from the plant, the union committee started meeting before and after work. Black and Puerto Rican activists would then take leaflets and union newsletters into the plant and walk through the halls and into the break rooms, handing out the information to their co-workers. When Martin Luther King's birthday approached in 2008, the union passed out a leaflet telling workers to "hold the date." This time, the company not only gave Tarheel workers the holiday but also let workers take the day off in every nonunion Smithfield plant. One union activist observed that the increased activity among African American workers gave a kind of cover to the Mexicans, allowing them to regain some of their former activism without feeling they had a target painted on their backs. At the same time, Puerto Rican workers also became more vocal, giving the union another voice in Spanish from workers who aren't immigrants at all. The company responded to rising pressure both inside and outside the plant by filing a racketeering suit against the union. It demanded the same kind of NLRB election it had won in 1994 and 1997 and accused the union of being anti-democratic when it would not agree to repeat the bitter experience of the past. As a trial grew close, the union and the company agreed to an election procedure that workers and organizers felt would keep Smithfield from using the old bare-knuckle tactics. The union won the right to access the plant premises, and organizers were able to walk the halls themselves and to sit in the lunchrooms and talk with workers, explaining the potential benefits of unionization. The company was able to hold a limited set of "captive audience" meetings, which workers were required to attend, where they heard management's anti-union speeches and watched anti-union videos. But the union also won the right to limit those speeches, keeping out threats and overt intimidation. In the meantime, the lunchrooms became hubs of union activity, with "Union Time" visible on helmets, leaflets, and buttons. To union activists, visibility inside the plant meant that, in the eyes of workers, the union had some power. Coupled with concessions on things like the King holiday, and a history of protest over accidents and line speed, it became clear the union could actually win changes. At the same time, workers were the union's visible leaders. Despite the firings and immigration raids, many veteran union supporters stayed active in the campaign. Union organizers spent countless hours with those leaders, talking about tactics and helping make decisions about the course of the campaign. And when the ballots were counted, the union won. *** Efforts by the modern U.S. labor movement to organize factories the size of the Tarheel plant have not been very successful for the last two decades. In fact, private-sector unionization has fallen below 8 percent of the work force. The giant electronics plants of Silicon Valley have an anti-union strategy so intimidating that unions haven't even tried to organize them for years. Japanese car manufacturers have built assembly plants and successfully kept workers from organizing, despite efforts by the auto union. The price for the lack of a successful strategy to organize those Japanese plants became clear in December's congressional debate over the auto bailout proposal, when Southern Republican senators demanded that the United Auto Workers agree to gut its union contracts to match the nonunion wages and conditions at Nissan, Honda, and BMW. The presence of the nonunion plants now threatens to destroy the union. The same dilemma exists in industry after industry. To get out of the box, today's labor movement pins its hopes on the Employee Free Choice Act. This proposal would require a company like Smithfield to negotiate a union contract if a majority of workers sign union cards. It would avoid the kind of union election that took place in 1997, where the idea of voting freely became a farce in an atmosphere of violence and terror. EFCA would also put penalties on employers who fire workers for union activity. At Smithfield, the company was only obliged to pay fired workers for their lost wages, and even then was allowed to deduct any money they'd earned during the decade their cases wound through the legal system. EFCA would substantially restrict the kind of anti-union campaign Smithfield mounted for 15 years. But EFCA by itself will not build strong unions, which workers can use not just to win elections but to make substantial changes in the workplace itself. The union at Smithfield wasn't created on election day by a fairer legal process. Workers had already organized it in the battles that preceded the vote. They did much more than sign union cards, go to a few meetings, and cast ballots. They had to lose their fear, show open support for the demands they'd chosen themselves, and learn to make management listen to those demands by slowing down lines, circulating petitions, and forming delegations to demand changes. Those battles hardened the leaders who survived. And if African American and Latino immigrant workers hadn't found a way to work together, the union drive would have ended with the immigration raids. Immigration enforcement was used to attack the union drive, and for months after the no-match letter and the two raids, the organizing campaign was effectively dead. At Smithfield and elsewhere, enforcement of immigration law itself has become a way to punish workers when they try to improve conditions. It was only when the African American workers who'd fought the first battle for the King holiday became the core of a new generation of leaders that the struggle to build the union could continue. Immigration raids didn't help black or other citizen workers -- they increased the fear, reduced the activity, eliminated leaders, and added months, if not years, to the time needed to rebuild. In the end, both African Americans and immigrant workers found a common interest in better wages and working conditions. But they also had to agree to defend the right of each worker to her or his job -- any unfair firing was an attack on the union, whether the victim was black, Mexican, or Puerto Rican. If the company and ICE had been successful in convincing half the plant that the other half really had no right to work because of their immigration status, workers would have been unwilling and unable to defend each other. The root of the problem lies in employer sanctions, the provision of federal law that prohibits employers from hiring undocumented workers. The law, in effect, makes working a crime for people without papers and hands employers a weapon to fight their own work force. When unions decided at the AFL-CIO convention in 1999 to call for repeal of sanctions, they recognized that changing immigration law was just as necessary for organizing unions as passing reforms like EFCA. Outside the Tarheel plant, the union grew roots in working-class communities. It organized a permanent coalition with churches and community organizations, not just a temporary arrangement of convenience. It became part of workers' lives. They met in its office, took English classes there, and marched in demonstrations for civil rights. And that coalition was able to turn the company's anti-labor activity against it, exposing its record in the place where Smithfield was most vulnerable -- in the eyes of consumers. Without pressure from workers and their communities, Smithfield had no motivation to reach an agreement on a fair election process. The election result, therefore, was the product of a long-term organizing effort and commitment. Smithfield workers and the UFCW have shown that with a similar commitment, organizing is possible, no matter how big the plant or anti-union the employer. But it takes a strategy based on building a real union in the workplace and community. And with changes in labor and immigration law, workers won't have to conduct a 15-year war to do it. Correction: We misstated the name of one of the towns where Smithfield workers live. It is St. Pauls, not Santa Paula. From thinker at thelakebc.ca Sun Dec 21 09:46:02 2008 From: thinker at thelakebc.ca (Ed Deak) Date: Sun Dec 21 09:42:29 2008 Subject: [Mai-not] NAFTA at work Message-ID: <200812211542.mBLFgISI024154@karma.reboot.ca> Thursday, October 23, 2008 Presented by Company sues over pesticide ban Canwest News Service Published: Thursday, October 23, 2008 CALGARY -Dow AgroSciences announced yesterday it was seeking a $2-million settlement from the Canadian government over the Quebec government's cosmetic pesticide ban, which affected one of the company's products. The company said it had submitted an official notice of intent to file a challenge under Chapter 11 of the North American Free Trade Agreement against the Canadian government over the ban of pesticide 2,4-D, which came into force in 2006. Chapter 11 provides investor protection from certain types of government actions. The company said that Health Canada's Pest Management Regulatory Agency found that the product could be used safely. "This challenge is aimed at ensuring that important public policy decisions are based on scientific evidence, predictability and a clear set of principles, and are managed within a transparent framework," said Jim Wispinski, president and CEO of the Indiana-based company. Copyright ? 2007 CanWest Interactive, a division of CanWest MediaWorks Publications, Inc.. All rights reserved. From jmeaton at ns.sympatico.ca Sun Dec 21 22:28:56 2008 From: jmeaton at ns.sympatico.ca (Janet M Eaton) Date: Sun Dec 21 22:27:13 2008 Subject: [Mai-not] Iggy pops up by Bruce Wark [The Coast] Dec 18, 2008 Message-ID: <494EDF48.31029.6A84BC34@jmeaton.ns.sympatico.ca> Bruce Wark is Associate Professor of Journalism at the University of King's College in Halifax, Nova Scotia. He worked as a CBC Radio journalist for nearly 20 years. He produced national radio programs such as The World at Six and World Report .He also served as Legislative reporter in Ontario, and National reporter for the Maritimes. fyi-janet =============================== http://www.thecoast.ca/Articles-i-2008-12-18-152905.113118- p19974.113118_Iggy_pops_up.html Iggy pops up Editorial by Bruce Wark, The Coast 2008-12-18 Oh my god, here comes Iggy. The beetle-browed brainiac suddenly had the Liberal leadership crown plunked on his pointy head last week. Now it's official. Michael Ignatieff is prime-minister-in-waiting. Yes, Ignatieff, champion of American Empire, cheerleader for Bush's invasion of Iraq, booster of the war in Afghanistan and, although he denies it, intellectual justifier of state torture. Here comes Iggy, leader of her Majesty's loyal opposition, journalist, professor, author, broadcaster, filmmaker, playwright, arts critic, scion of Russian nobility, son of a prominent Canadian diplomat, nephew of the brooding philosopher George Grant and disciple of Isaiah Berlin, the celebrated English sage who divided great writers and thinkers into hedgehogs (who have one big idea) and foxes (who have many). Iggy penned a biography of Berlin in clear, elegant prose, bristling with compelling ideas and brimming with love and respect. The book received wide acclaim as did several of Iggy's 15 other tomes. His family memoir, The Russian Album won a Governor General's Award. His novel Scar Tissue based on his mother's harrowing descent into dementia was short-listed for two British literary prizes. His study of NATO's so-called humanitarian bombing of the former Yugoslavia, Virtual War: Kosovo and Beyond won the George Orwell Prize. In the meantime, Iggy taught at leading universities including Oxford, Cambridge and Harvard. He wrote for influential newspapers and magazines and hosted British TV programs including an award-winning BBC series on late 20th century nationalism. Yes indeed, our prime minister-in-waiting has an impressive CV. Unfortunately however, he may also be another Liberal right-winger, a Robin Hood-in-reverse like Chretien and Martin who shredded the social safety net for the poor and middle classes, then handed out tax cuts to corporations and the rich. Now, Stephen Harper is planning several more rounds of tax cuts. The Liberals are supporting Harper's tax cuts and Ignatieff is unlikely to change their direction. During a talk at Boston University in 2005, Iggy mused that while taxes finance good things such as social programs and public transportation, taking tax dollars out of people's pockets is a form of coercion and "all forms of coercion are intrinsically morally problematic." Ignatieff's comments were a far cry from the idea once espoused by Liberals that progressive taxation not only finances public programs that benefit everyone, it also redistributes income from richer to poorer to achieve greater equality, social justice and peace. After decades of relentless right-wing propaganda, that's considered rank heresy. Taxes are evil or, in Iggy's terms, they're morally problematic forms of coercion. You can just hear fat cats everywhere applauding the pointy-headed professor. And that's the trouble with our PM-in-waiting. He's usually on the side of the powerful. Ignatieff fervently supported Bush's invasion of Iraq, then when Bush's illegal war turned to shit and tens of thousands were dying, he claimed he'd been blinded by his humanitarian concern for the plight of Iraqi people. He had mistakenly believed, he said, that Bush was carrying on the grand American tradition of sowing the seeds of democracy and peace. On the use of torture, he was equivocal, finally pronouncing that while it was morally wrong, it could yield valuable information, save innocent lives and besides, he had to admit that most people were in favour of it. So much for supporting the UN convention that outlaws torture under any circumstances. Admittedly, it may be too early to judge the new Liberal leader. Political circumstances may force the Liberals to bring Harper down and to implement their coalition with the NDP. And, the economic meltdown may force a coalition government led by Ignatieff to start spending more on government programs that benefit all of us, not just the rich. To adapt Isaiah Berlin's theory, Iggy may be forced to shed the political hedgehog's one grand idea that governments should step aside and let big business rule and adopt the fox's many ideas for improving the lot of everyone. What do you think of Iggy? Let Bruce know at brucew@thecoast.ca. From thinker at thelakebc.ca Mon Dec 22 12:01:56 2008 From: thinker at thelakebc.ca (Ed Deak) Date: Mon Dec 22 11:58:21 2008 Subject: [Mai-not] How international bankers gained control of America Message-ID: <200812221758.mBMHwCBd013052@karma.reboot.ca> Forwarded without comment, except that many of us have been warning about this for many years. Ed ================================================================================ Subject: How International Bankers Gained Control of America If you are trying to understand the US financial system... http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-515319560256183936 From ptuffley at xtra.co.nz Mon Dec 22 15:37:04 2008 From: ptuffley at xtra.co.nz (Peter Tuffley) Date: Mon Dec 22 15:37:41 2008 Subject: [Mai-not] How international bankers gained control of America In-Reply-To: <200812221758.mBMHwCBd013052@karma.reboot.ca> References: <200812221758.mBMHwCBd013052@karma.reboot.ca> Message-ID: Thanks for sharing, Ed! Peter On 23/12/2008, at 7:01 AM, Ed Deak wrote: > Forwarded without comment, except that many of us have been warning > about this for many years. > > Ed > > = > = > = > = > = > = > = > = > = > = > ====================================================================== > > > Subject: How International Bankers Gained Control of America > > > If you are trying to understand the US financial system... > http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-515319560256183936 > From glparramatta at greenleft.org.au Mon Dec 22 18:11:47 2008 From: glparramatta at greenleft.org.au (glparramatta) Date: Mon Dec 22 18:31:49 2008 Subject: [Mai-not] What's new at Links: Indonesia; Greece; Malaysia; Lockerbie; Greenland; US workers sit-in; Ecosocialism; Muntadar al-Zaidi; Venezuela; Quebec; India; Thailand Message-ID: <49502CC3.9060900@greenleft.org.au> What's new at Links: Indonesia; Greece; Malaysia; Lockerbie; Greenland; US workers sit-in; Ecosocialism; Muntadar al-Zaidi; Venezuela; Quebec; India; Thailand * * * Subscribe free to Links - International Journal of Socialist Renewal - at http://www.feedblitz.com/f/?Sub=343373 Visit and bookmark http://links.org.au and add it to your RSS feed (http://links.org.au/rss.xml). If you would like us to consider an article, please send it to links@dsp.org.au *Please pass on to anybody you think will be interested in /Links/. * * * Indonesia: Protest napalm bomb attack on farmers' settlement! By Papernas (National Liberation Party of Unity, Indonesia) December 18, 2008 -- About 1000 thugs sent by PT Arara Abadi and directly led by 500 police, under Riau regional police commander Alex Mandalika, unsparingly attacked, destroyed and burned houses using napalm bombs in Suluk Bongkal village, Riau Province, Indonesia. A two-year-old girl died in the attack. * Read more Malaysia: Victory as `cyclists for change' reach parliament after massive police repression By Oppressed People's Movement (Jaringan Rakyat Tertindas, Jerit) December 18, 2008 -- Jerit, Suaram -- People's power has spoken once again! With the roars from a strong crowd of 500 people, the young militant cyclists, who from December 3 conducted their ``Cycle for Change'' campaign throughout Malaysia, pedalled bravely into the grounds of the parliment, which definitely belongs to them, ``THE PEOPLE". After almost 16 days' journey through the states of Malaysia, they brought the people's demands to the ears of their representitives! * Read more Down with the government of murderers! Greek left on the murder of Alexis Grigoropoulos (+ video, audio; updated Dec. 20) Links International Journal of Socialist Renewal is publishing a number of declarations, statements, calls and articles from Greek left organisations in response to the assassination by Greek police of Alexis Grigoropoulos. * Read more Lockerbie, 20 years on: Behind the frame up of Abdelbaset Ali Mohmed al Megrahi To mark the 20th anniversary of the Lockerbie air disaster, Links International Journal of Socialist Renewal is republishing these important articles. Since their first publication, important new evidence has cast even more doubt on the unjust conviction of Abdelbaset Ali Mohmed al Megrahi. * Read more Inuit-majority Greenland wins self-government December 1, 2008 -- Bella Caledonia -- One of Scotland's largest neighbours has just voted for independence. I don't mean England, or Ireland, or Scandinavia, but a country which is bigger than all of these combined. And I use the term "neighbour" loosely, because it is a good few hundred miles across the Atlantic from us, and very few readers will have ever been there. * Read more Workers' Republic - Scenes from a successful factory occupation When the workers at Republic Windows and Doors -- in Chicago, USA -- were notified their factory would close in three days, they took matters into their own hands. The unionised workers seized control of the factory for six days to demand the entitlements they were owed by law. They also demanded that Bank of America, which was ``bailed out'' with taxpayers' money just weeks before, make funds available to the company to pay the workers. On the sixth day, December 10, 2008, of their occupation, they won all their demands, and showed the world's working class a classic example of people's power. This short video from Labor Beat (http://www.laborbeat.org). * Read more Sign the Belem Ecosocialist Declaration The following Declaration was prepared by a committee elected for this purpose at the Paris Ecosocialist Conference of 2007 (Ian Angus, Joel Kovel, Michael L?wy), with the help of Danielle Follett. It will be distributed at the World Social Forum in Belem, Brazil, in January 2009. * Read more Release Muntadar al-Zaidi! December 16, 2008 -- Join the growing international call for the release of Muntadar al-Zaidi! * Read more Venezuelan elections: Mixed results intensify class struggle By Christopher Kerr Electoral politics in Venezuela are primarily an expression of the greater class struggle occurring around them. This general tendency occurs despite efforts by the government to institutionalise the mechanism of elections as the legitimate method of implementing the political project of both blocs of power, and ensuring the transparency and reliability of the electoral process in the eyes of the Venezuelan masses. * Read more Challenges facing Qu?bec solidaire following breakthrough in Quebec election By Richard Fidler December 15, 2008 -- In the December 8 Qu?bec general election, the Liberal government headed by Jean Charest was re-elected with 66 seats, turning its minority status before the election into a thin majority of seats in the National Assembly. The sovereigntist Parti qu?b?cois (PQ), benefiting from a late surge in the polls, was elected in 51 seats and replaced the right-wing Action D?mocratique du Qu?bec (ADQ) as official parliamentary opposition. The ADQ elected only seven members. * Read more India must not succumb to the US strategy of proliferation of terror By Dipankar Bhattacharya December 15, 2008 -- The recent siege of Mumbai for nearly three days by a small band of well-trained terrorists has almost universally come to be described as ``India's 9/11''. In terms of sheer audacity of planning and execution, the places targeted and the scale and range of people killed and injured, the Mumbai terror siege can surely be bracketed with the original 9/11, and in terms of the duration of the skirmish it can also claim to have left the original way behind. The analogy between New York 9/11 and Mumbai 26/11 must not however be confined to these operational details. What is most important is to recognise the Mumbai attack was an extension of the same terror trajectory that struck New York seven years ago. What should we learn from this? * Read more Thailand: `Cockroaches' take over By Giles Ji Ungpakorn Bangkok, December 15, 2008 -- The appointment of ``Democrat'' Party leader Abhisit Vejjajiva as the new Prime Minister of Thailand is the final stage of the second coup against an elected government. * Read more Greece: Left prospects in the post-PASOK era In the last few years, the political alignments in the European Union (EU) countries have changed drastically. In the 1990s, social-democratic parties and centre-left political forces were dominant. Under the banners of "progressive governance" or "modernisation" these parties ruled numerous countries and dominated the political scene on the continent. Today, it is no secret that after long years in government, these political forces, what some like to call the "governmental left" are, to say the least, in retreat. It is indeed no secret that social democracy is in deep crisis: the recent congress of the French Socialists proved that this party is going through a period of self-questioning over the issue of its leadership, but also that it had nothing new to offer or, as a conservative daily commented, it appears as if "it does not think any more". * Read more * * * /Links/ seeks to promote the international exchange of information, experience of struggle, theoretical analysis and views of political strategy and tactics within the international left. It is a forum for open and constructive dialogue between active socialists coming from different political traditions. It seeks to bring together those in the international left who are opposed to neoliberal economic and social policies. It aims to promote the renewal of the socialist movement in the wake of the collapse of the bureaucratic model of "actually existing socialism" in the Soviet Union and Eastern Europe. ATTENTION: Sign up for regular ``what's new'' announcement emails at http://www.feedblitz.com/f/?Sub=343373 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.globalproblematique.net/pipermail/mai-not/attachments/20081223/7c1977e3/attachment.html From diongiles1 at aapt.net.au Mon Dec 22 19:33:31 2008 From: diongiles1 at aapt.net.au (Dion Giles) Date: Mon Dec 22 19:33:39 2008 Subject: [Mai-not] Why bailout is nothing more than larceny Message-ID: <20081223013331.E1231F5AD@fep07.mfe.bur.connect.com.au> AP Study Finds $1.6 Billion Went to Bailed-Out Bank Executives http://www.truthout.org/122208M Frank Bass and Rita Beamish, The Associated Press: "Banks that are getting taxpayer bailouts awarded their top executives nearly $1.6 billion in salaries, bonuses, and other benefits last year, an Associated Press analysis reveals. The rewards came even at banks where poor results last year foretold the economic crisis that sent them to Washington for a government rescue. Some trimmed their executive compensation due to lagging bank performance, but still forked over multimillion-dollar executive pay packages." =============== Not just the US bailout. All the other bailouts as well. All the recipients are linked and all the donor governments are linked. The greatest shakedown in history. Dion Giles Western Australia From McPogo at aol.com Mon Dec 22 21:01:37 2008 From: McPogo at aol.com (McPogo@aol.com) Date: Mon Dec 22 21:01:42 2008 Subject: [Mai-not] NAFTA at work Message-ID: thinker, What good is NAFTA to us with the mess the world economy is in. It never worked as promised anyways....get rid of it and vapid lawsuits from chemical disasters like Dow! McPogo In a message dated 12/21/2008 10:45:20 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, thinker@thelakebc.ca writes: Mai-not@globalproblematique.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.globalproblematique.net/pipermail/mai-not/attachments/20081222/e7c06a38/attachment.html From thinker at thelakebc.ca Mon Dec 22 21:26:05 2008 From: thinker at thelakebc.ca (Ed Deak) Date: Mon Dec 22 21:22:24 2008 Subject: [Mai-not] NAFTA at work In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200812230322.mBN3MGKa014907@karma.reboot.ca> Mc...... I have a paper trail going back over 20 years fighting against the FTA and the NAFTA. Many of us have known all this time that the only purpose of these treaties is to defraud and enslave people. Cheers, Ed. At 07:01 PM 22/12/2008, you wrote: >thinker, > >What good is NAFTA to us with the mess the world economy is in. It >never worked as promised anyways....get rid of it and vapid lawsuits >from chemical disasters like Dow! > >McPogo > > > > >In a message dated 12/21/2008 10:45:20 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, >thinker@thelakebc.ca writes: >Mai-not@globalproblematique.net > > >_______________________________________________ >Mai-not mailing list >Mai-not@globalproblematique.net >http://www.globalproblematique.net/mailman/listinfo/mai-not > > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.0/1861 - Release Date: >12/22/2008 11:23 AM From diongiles1 at aapt.net.au Mon Dec 22 21:36:03 2008 From: diongiles1 at aapt.net.au (Dion Giles) Date: Mon Dec 22 21:36:05 2008 Subject: [Mai-not] NAFTA at work In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20081223033604.1629BF70E@fep04.mfe.bur.connect.com.au> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.globalproblematique.net/pipermail/mai-not/attachments/20081223/6cef9ca3/attachment.html From ptuffley at XTRA.CO.NZ Mon Dec 22 22:30:00 2008 From: ptuffley at XTRA.CO.NZ (Peter Tuffley) Date: Mon Dec 22 22:30:28 2008 Subject: [Mai-not] Uncle Sam May Grab Your gold if You're Not Careful Message-ID: One interesting aspect of the video on the international bankers to which Ed posted the link was, I thought, that while it was at one with Ron Paul et al in opposition to fiat currency, it was opposed to their advocacy of a return to the gold standard. The article below looks at a possible hazard in one of the strategies for survival the video advised. http://www.prudentbear.com/index.php/commentary/guestcommentary?art_id=10168 Uncle Sam May Grab Your gold if You're Not Careful * by Richard Benson * December 22, 2008 Article begins... I can?t complain. My wife and I have plenty to eat and we own our home outright. With no debt and enough money to carry us for the next few years, we?ll make it through this economic downturn as long as we continue to live modestly. But when it comes to developing a strategy on how to protect my hard-earned savings from theft, folly, taxes or inflation, great care must be taken. I?ve read a lot of monetary history and understand that protecting your savings is actually a very difficult task. While studying economics at Harvard, I had the terrific opportunity to study and learn from some of the best and brightest scholars and professors there, some of whom come January will be thinking up and acting out economic policy for at least the next four years in the White House. My education and experience has given me great insight into how these economic czars think and what their sense of morality, or lack thereof, really is. There?s no doubt they?ll be forced to act aggressively to get our country out of this slump, and their actions will have a deep long lasting impact on every aspect of the economy as well as your savings, if you?re not careful. ... Peter From yves.bajard at yahoo.com Sat Dec 27 11:03:02 2008 From: yves.bajard at yahoo.com (Yves Bajard) Date: Sat Dec 27 11:06:12 2008 Subject: [Mai-not] Key questions Message-ID: <199336.90655.qm@web59815.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Dear Mai-notters I wish you all a solidly felt inside joy for these last days of 2008 and the first days of 2009. I wish also that you arm yourself with courage and determination to face constructively our very uncertain and threatening immediate future. End-of-year comments Christmas 2008 is gone and the last days of this year can now be counted on one hand. Whatever bad and ominous happened during the past? 360 days, in or near your backyard or further away, is nothing compared to what threatens for the next 365 days and further. Mai-not? is now some ten years old. Let me clarify a few points and express my? (I believe) dispassionate and clinical opinion of Mai-not and its operation (no blame against anyone among you being implied) 1. First, let me explain briefly where I come from and why I have chosen to take over and support you with as few personal inputs as possible. Although I have been? branded a predator by Chris Reuss, I have no relation with any bank or financial group. I am not linked either with? Henry Ford et al., the Rockefellers, the Carnegies or any emir or cheikh of the Middle East. And I have worked all my adult life against a salary or for no salary at all. I? am a retired civil engineer and geologist, specialised in the management of useful/necessary information on natural and human factors that affect risks and opportunities in watersheds/areas under stress. My idea was from start to introduce cooperative ways to reduce risks in such watersheds. Of course that went at cross purposes with current ways of doing in which information is seen as a weapon useful for its holders to control the others for? immediate gain in power and riches. Since 1989, I have been an outcast, still fighting for my ideas. I created the NetCFS in 1991, with the backing of a solid group of persons apparently concerned with the dangers to our common future resulting from current ways of doing things. For years, I have been its main source of finance, drawing on my small retirement income and getting outside stipends without any ties attached from time to time. My wife's salary as a high school teacher allowed us to raise our children an to keep on existing. I tried many avenues to wake up people not just to the increasing warnings of a very threatening future for the whole system, and I still keep on. ?My undertaking with Mai-not was one of these attempts. 2. my opinion of Mai -not I have been monitoring closely the various posts on Mai-Not, and found that in general, you, Mai-notters, denounce what goes wrong in this world. You exchange views about issues you see as important but which you rarely place in a full context. You sometimes drift into interpersonal diatribes. And finally, you blame the greedy or the imperialists, the "predators" and other demoniac groups, while praising the "producers" a vaguely group of pure human beings in which you deem you belong. Until now, I have not seen expressions of constructive ideas or proposals for action by Mai-notters. You stay within the existing system, while blaming it as if you were outside of it. And you always expect the powers-that-are in the system to take on the challenges you are launching, reform themselves, and transform the world for the common good. Why don't you try to propose something concrete, starting from where you are and basing your projects on means available to you, rather than fighting for a change in behaviour among people and groups who don't give a damn about Mai-Not? 3. I would propose that you give some clinical and critical thought to the group and examine also critically (in the logical sense of critical mind) my perception of Mai-not. I would also wish that at least a few among you engage in a search for constructive options that might pull us out of current destructive trajectory.? ? I think that for our courage to be solid and to have a chance to open for all of us a path out of the current mess, we need to address a few fundamental questions -and share our answers, our perceptions and our doubts. On this 27th day of December, I propose four such questions and suggest that we do that together, as a start, on Mai-not, with as few personal attacks or implications as possible. My questions are: a. Do you think that you are adequately informed about the whats, the hows the how-comes, the whys, the wheres and the whens of what is happening that affects your ways of life and that of so many others who are sinking into an undescribable angst when not a serious deprivation of the essentials of life? b. Do you think that the institutions that are at the helm the whole economic, cultural and social system in our backyard and at a world scale are capable of effectively steering us out of the mess they -and us - created and thrived upon? c. If yes, in what ways and on what impulse? If no what would you propose as a viable alternative? d. What then, would you propose we should and can do to reach adequate results or to trigger awider public move toward an effective managwement of current risks and threats? I hope that now at this time of the day, you will bite the bullet and take on the challenge. Again, best wishes of the season Yves Bajard, PS: I am sending this from Ecuador, where I am learning some Spanish, bits of Hispano-American literature, and looking at the whole problematique from a different perspective. PPS: Please also consider that? a small contribution from you to the operation of Mai-not would be welcome. Cheques, money orders or other means should be written to the order thew NetCFS of and sent to NetCFS (attention Dee Shoolingin, Treasurer) , 1896 Watson St, Victoria, BC Canada, V8R 6N6. Where legislation make such a contribution impossible, just stay put and hope that those of you without such restrictions will contribute sufficiently, sop that I? don't have to personally foot the bills (internet, etc..) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.globalproblematique.net/pipermail/mai-not/attachments/20081227/7ce40906/attachment.html From thinker at thelakebc.ca Sat Dec 27 14:37:07 2008 From: thinker at thelakebc.ca (Ed Deak) Date: Sat Dec 27 14:33:23 2008 Subject: [Mai-not] Nova Scotia to elect an NDP govt ????????? Message-ID: <200812272033.mBRKXEJG023476@karma.reboot.ca> ---------- From the Tyee ---------- ---------- Ed. Nova Scotia poised to elect NDP government? By Monte Paulsen December 26, 2008 10:00 am New Democrats are poised to make a historic breakthrough in Nova Scotia next year, according to a Canadian Press report published today: HALIFAX, N.S. ? In a region that has proven a wasteland for New Democrats in provincial politics, Nova Scotia's NDP is a prime contender in 2009 when an election seems a certainty. The province's Official Opposition holds 20 of the 52 seats in the minority legislature and is looking to make a historic breakthrough as Atlantic Canada's first NDP government. With the governing Conservatives holding 22 seats, the New Democrats need to turn just a handful of ridings to take power. That puts the party far ahead of its cousins in other parts of Atlantic Canada, where the NDP has had few successes in provincial politics. It's indicative of a history that has seen the NDP never elect more than two members at one time in Newfoundland and Labrador, while never more than one seat at a time in the New Brunswick legislature. Herb Dickieson is the only New Democrat to be elected to the Prince Edward Island legislature. The CP dispatch, reported by Keith Doucette, cites several possible reasons for the NDP gains, including the collapse of the Liberal party after 1998, and how the Nova Scotia NDP has capitalized on trends that have seen support grow in urban areas. Add to that list the simple fact that the party has never held government in Atlantic Canada, so there are no fast ferry fiascos to haunt them. As B.C. prepares to debate its growing fleet of parked ferries ? both fast and fuel-hogging German ? I'm left wondering: What is the Nova Scotia NDP doing that the B.C. NDP isn't? Questions for Tyee commenters: What do you know about the Nova Scotia NDP? What lessons might B.C. New Democrats glean from the party's apparent success on that little ocean to the east? Monte Paulsen covers politics for The Tyee.ca. Filed in * Election Central ---------- Back to Nova Scotia poised to elect NDP government? From thinker at thelakebc.ca Sat Dec 27 15:18:07 2008 From: thinker at thelakebc.ca (Ed Deak) Date: Sat Dec 27 15:14:22 2008 Subject: [Mai-not] US Military preparing for domestic disturbances. Message-ID: <200812272114.mBRLEDhh025575@karma.reboot.ca> U.S. Military Preparing for Domestic Disturbances December 23, 2008 A new report from the U.S. Army War College discusses the use of American troops to quell civil unrest brought about by a worsening economic crisis. The report from the War College?s Strategic Studies Institute warns that the U.S. military must prepare for a ?violent, strategic dislocation inside the United States? that could be provoked by ?unforeseen economic collapse? or ?loss of functioning political and legal order.? Entitled ?Known Unknowns: Unconventional ?Strategic Shocks? in Defense Strategy Development,? the report was produced by Nathan Freier, a recently retired Army lieutenant colonel who is a professor at the college ? the Army?s main training institute for prospective senior officers. He writes: ?To the extent events like this involve organized violence against local, state, and national authorities and exceed the capacity of the former two to restore public order and protect vulnerable populations, DoD [Department of Defense] would be required to fill the gap.? Freier continues: ?Widespread civil violence inside the United States would force the defense establishment to reorient priorities in extremis to defend basic domestic order An American government and defense establishment lulled into complacency by a long-secure domestic order would be forced to rapidly divest some or most external security commitments in order to address rapidly expanding human insecurity at home.? International Monetary Fund Managing Director Dominique Strauss-Kahn warned last week of riots and unrest in global markets if the ongoing financial crisis is not addressed and lower-income households are beset with credit constraints and rising unemployment, the Phoenix Business Journal reported. Sen. James Inhofe of Oklahoma and Rep. Brad Sherman of California disclosed that Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson discussed a worst-case scenario as he pushed the Wall Street bailout in September, and said that scenario might even require a declaration of martial law. The Army College report states: ?DoD might be forced by circumstances to put its broad resources at the disposal of civil authorities to contain and reverse violent threats to domestic tranquility. Under the most extreme circumstances, this might include use of military force against hostile groups inside the United States. ?Further, DoD would be, by necessity, an essential enabling hub for the continuity of political authority in a multi-state or nationwide civil conflict or disturbance.? He concludes this section of the report by observing: ?DoD is already challenged by stabilization abroad. Imagine the challenges associated with doing so on a massive scale at home." As Newsmax reported earlier, the Defense Department has made plans to deploy 20,000 troops nationwide by 2011 to help state and local officials respond to emergencies. The 130-year-old Posse Comitatus Act restricts the military?s role in domestic law enforcement. But a 1994 Defense Department Directive allows military commanders to take emergency actions in domestic situations to save lives, prevent suffering or mitigate great property damage, according to the Business Journal. And Gen. Tommy Franks, who led the U.S. military operations to liberate Iraq, said in a 2003 interview that if the U.S. is attacked with a weapon of mass destruction, the Constitution will likely be discarded in favor of a military form of government. From jfos at vic.australis.com.au Sat Dec 27 16:41:15 2008 From: jfos at vic.australis.com.au (john foster) Date: Sat Dec 27 16:41:19 2008 Subject: [Mai-not] Fwd: "Class is a dirty word" Message-ID: <00ec01c96874$3a76a980$3bad57ca@jfos> Extract: "JM: How has the capitalist class in the US been so successful at convincing the masses that we live in a "classless society" and etching a cultural standard in granite that it is taboo to discuss class issues? MP: Through control of the universe of discourse, including the media, the professions, the universities, the publishing industry, many of the churches, the consumer society, the job market, and even the very socialization of our children and the prefiguring of our own perceptions, the ruling interests are able to exercise a prevailing ideological control that excludes any reasoned critique of the dominant paradigm. Class is a dirty word in that it gets close to the truth about who governs and for whose benefit."(snip) Full article at http://www.bestcyrano.org/THOMASPAINE/?p=1455 ------------------------------------------------------ Provided by Australis http://www.australis.com.au/ From d_a_d at telusplanet.net Sat Dec 27 17:13:17 2008 From: d_a_d at telusplanet.net (d_a_d@telusplanet.net) Date: Sat Dec 27 17:13:26 2008 Subject: [Mai-not] NYTimes.com: Tennessee Ash Flood Larger Than Initial Estimate Message-ID: <200812272313.mBRNDFWo031548@karma.reboot.ca> This page was sent to you by: d_a_d@telusplanet.net. US | December 27, 2008 Tennessee Ash Flood Larger Than Initial Estimate By SHAILA DEWAN Experts had already called the spill in Tennessee the largest of its kind in the U.S., but a survey showed it was three times larger than was first thought. http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/27/us/27sludge.html?ei=5070&emc=eta1 ---------------------------------------------------------- ABOUT THIS E-MAIL This e-mail was sent to you by a friend through NYTimes.com's E-mail This Article service. For general information about NYTimes.com, write to help@nytimes.com. NYTimes.com 620 Eighth Avenue New York, NY 10018 Copyright 2008 The New York Times Company -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.globalproblematique.net/pipermail/mai-not/attachments/20081227/34393527/attachment.html From glparramatta at greenleft.org.au Sat Dec 27 18:29:15 2008 From: glparramatta at greenleft.org.au (glparramatta) Date: Sat Dec 27 19:27:09 2008 Subject: [Mai-not] Palestinians, solidarity activists condemn Israel's mass slaughter in Gaza, call for protests and sanctions | Links Message-ID: <4956C85B.4010904@greenleft.org.au> By the *Palestinian Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions National Committee* Occupied Ramallah, Palestine -- December 27, 2008 -- Today, the Israeli occupation army committed a new massacre in Gaza, causing the death and injury of hundreds of Palestinian civilians [latest reports place the death toll at more than 200], including a yet unknown number of schoolchildren who were headed home from school when the first Israeli military strikes started. This latest bloodbath, although far more ruthless than all its predecessors, is not Israel's first. It culminates months of an Israeli siege of Gaza that should be widely condemned and prosecuted as an act of genocide against the 1.5 million Palestinians in the occupied coastal strip. Israel seems intent to mark the end of its 60th year of existence the same way it has established itself -- perpetrating massacres against the Palestinian people. In 1948, the majority of the indigenous Palestinian people were ethnically cleansed from their homes and land, partly through massacres like Deir Yassin; today, the Palestinians in Gaza, most of whom are refugees, do not even have the choice to seek refuge elsewhere. Incarcerated behind ghetto walls and brought to the brink of starvation by the siege, they are easy targets for Israel's indiscriminate bombing. Full statement (and others including Palestinian government, human rights groups, Electronic Intifada and Communist Party of Israel) at http://links.org.au/node/823 From siamdave at yahoo.ca Sat Dec 27 22:42:52 2008 From: siamdave at yahoo.ca (Dave Patterson) Date: Sat Dec 27 22:42:59 2008 Subject: that's The Box (Re: [Mai-not] Fwd: "Class is a dirty word" In-Reply-To: <00ec01c96874$3a76a980$3bad57ca@jfos> References: <00ec01c96874$3a76a980$3bad57ca@jfos> Message-ID: <200812281142520640.004562F0@smtp-adsl.totonline.net> I spend a fair amount of time trying to explain this Chaps 5-7 of They're Building a Box - and You're In It - http://www.rudemacedon.ca/dlp/box/box-intro.html - but apparently with little success. This is perhaps the most difficult challenge we face - the people are so well indoctrinated that to even mention the idea is to invite ridicule. It's been an amazingly successful experiment the last century, I think, indoctrinating the people to believe they are not indoctrintated but to behave in a certain way or believe certain things - freedom within the box, certainly, but never questioning their faux-democracy or their effective wage-slavery or the integrity of their media or education or government or 'justice' systems, working working working to support the rulers in the style to which they have become accustomed .... *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 08-12-28 at 9:41 AM john foster wrote: >Extract: > >"JM: How has the capitalist class in the US been so successful at >convincing >the masses that we live in a "classless society" and etching a cultural >standard in granite that it is taboo to discuss class issues? > >MP: Through control of the universe of discourse, including the media, the >professions, the universities, the publishing industry, many of the >churches, the consumer society, the job market, and even the very >socialization of our children and the prefiguring of our own perceptions, >the ruling interests are able to exercise a prevailing ideological control >that excludes any reasoned critique of the dominant paradigm. Class is a >dirty word in that it gets close to the truth about who governs and for >whose benefit."(snip) > >Full article at http://www.bestcyrano.org/THOMASPAINE/?p=1455 > > > > > > > >------------------------------------------------------ >Provided by Australis >http://www.australis.com.au/ > >_______________________________________________ >Mai-not mailing list >Mai-not@globalproblematique.net >http://www.globalproblematique.net/mailman/listinfo/mai-not > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.0/1865 - Release Date: 26/12/2551 13:01 From creuss at bluewin.ch Sun Dec 28 04:54:01 2008 From: creuss at bluewin.ch (Christoph Reuss) Date: Sun Dec 28 04:56:31 2008 Subject: [Mai-not] Fwd: "Class is a dirty word" Message-ID: It's absurd to complain about the "taboo 'class'" when his own taboo is that of the correct class dichotomy. "Capitalism" is only a pretext -- predators don't need it to go about their predatory ways! Chris ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ SpamWall: Mail to this addy is deleted unread unless it contains the keyword "igve". From creuss at bluewin.ch Sun Dec 28 05:35:33 2008 From: creuss at bluewin.ch (Christoph Reuss) Date: Sun Dec 28 05:38:00 2008 Subject: [Mai-not] Background on the Madoff Mega-Fraud Message-ID: While Petras narrates some interesting details about the Madoff fraud, he is wrong about the basic purpose. He thinks that the fraud amounts to a redistribution from rich to poor, when the opposite is true. And although rich zionists whine about their "big losses", you can bet that the money actually went to their accounts in Israel, so they don't even have to pay taxes to the IRS anymore. This whole "banking crisis" is another 9/11 scheme by and for zionist profiteers. Chris http://lahaine.org/petras/index.php?p=1769&c=1 Bernard Madoff: Wall Street Swindler Strikes Powerful Blows for Social Justice Wall Street broker Bernard ('Bernie') Madoff, former president of NASDAQ, revered and respected investor confessed to pulling off the biggest fraud in history, a $50 billion dollar scam. Bernie was known for his generous philanthropy, especially to Zionist, Jewish and Israeli causes. 19.12.08 "We never thought he would do this to us, he was one of our people", member of Palm Beach Country Club. An Introduction to the Mega-Swindle Wall Street broker Bernard ('Bernie') Madoff, former president of NASDAQ, revered and respected investor confessed to pulling off the biggest fraud in history, a $50 billion dollar scam. Bernie was known for his generous philanthropy, especially to Zionist, Jewish and Israeli causes. A one time life-guard on Long Island in the 1960's, Bernie launched his financial career by raising money from colleagues, friends and relatives among wealthier Jews in the Long Island suburbs, Palm Beach, Florida and in Manhattan, promising a modest, steady and secure return of between 10 to 12%, covering any withdrawals in typical Ponzi fashion by drawing on funds from new investors who literally pleaded for Bernie to fleece them. Madoff personally managed at least $17 billion dollars. For almost four decades he built up a clientele, which came to include some of the biggest banks and investment houses in Scotland, Spain, England and France; as well as major hedge funds in the United States. Madoff drew almost all of the funds from high net-worth private clients who were recruited by brokers working on commission. Bernie's clients included many multi-millionaires and billionaires from Switzerland, Israel and elsewhere, as well as the US's largest hedge funds (RMF Division of the Man Group and the Tremont). Many of the swindled super-rich clients forced their money on Madoff, who sternly imposed rigorous conditions on potential clients: He insisted they have recommendations from existing investors, deposit a substantial amount and guarantee their own solvency. Most considered themselves lucky to have their funds taken by the highly respected Wall Street?swindler. Madoff's standard message was that the fund was closed?but because they came from the same world (board members of Jewish charities, pro-Israel fund raising organizations or the 'right' country clubs) or were related to a friend, colleague or existing clients, he would take their money. Madoff set up advisory councils with distinguished members, contributed heavily to museums, hospitals and upscale cultural organizations. He was a prominent member of exclusive country clubs in Palm Beach and Long Island. His reputation was enhanced by his funds record of never having a losing year - a big selling point in luring millionaire investors. Madoff shared with his super-rich clients (Jews and Gentiles) a common upper class life style, and mix of cultural philanthropy with low key financial profiteering. Madoff 'played' his colleagues with a soft-spoken, but authoritative, appearance of 'expertise', covered by a veneer of upper class collegiality, deep commitment to Zionism and long-term friendships. Bernie's mega-fund shared many signs with recent high level scams: The constant high returns, unmatched by any other broker; a lack of third party oversight; a backroom accounting firm physically incapable of auditing the multi-billion dollar operation; a broker-dealer operation directly under his thumb and the total obfuscation of what he was actually investing in. The obvious similarity of signs with other fraudsters were overlooked by the rich and famous, the sophisticated investors and high paid consultants, the Harvard MBA's and the entire army of regulators from the Security and Exchange Commissions (SEC) because they were totally embedded in the corrupt culture of 'take the money and run' and 'if you're making it, don't ask questions'. The reputation of the superior wisdom of a seemingly successful Jewish Wall Streeter fed into the self-delusions of the wealthy and the stereotypes held by millionaire Gentiles. The Big Swindle Madoff's investment fund only dealt with a limited clientele of multi-millionaire and billionaires who kept their funds in for the long haul; the occasional withdrawal were limited in amount and were easily covered by soliciting new funds from new investors fighting to have access to Madoff's money management. The long-term big investors looked toward passing their investments to their kin or eventual retirement. The wealthy lawyers, dentists, surgeons, distinguished Ivy league professors and others who might need to draw from their funds for an occasional fancy wedding or celebrity-studded bar-mitzvah, could draw from their funds because Madoff had no problem covering the withdrawal by attracting funds from rich owners of sweat shop garment factories, dangerous meat packing outfits and slumlords. Madoff was no Robin Hood, his philanthropic and charity contributions facilitated access to the rich and wealthy who served on the boards of the recipient institutions and proved that he was 'one of them' a kind of super-rich 'intimate' of the same elite class. The shock, awe and heart attacks that followed Madoff's confession that he was 'running a Ponzi scheme' drew as much anger for the money lost and the fall from the moneyed class as for the embarrassment of knowing that the world's biggest exploiters and smartest swindlers on Wall Street, were completely 'taken' by one of their own. Not only did they suffer big losses but their self-image of themselves as rich because they are so smart and of 'superior stock' was utterly shattered: They saw themselves as suffering the same fate as all the schmucks they had previously swindled, exploited and dispossessed in their climb to the top. There is nothing worse for the ego of a respectable swindler than to be trumped by a bigger swindler. As a result, a number of the biggest losers have so far refused to give their names or the amount they lost, working instead through lawyers fighting off other losers. The Positive Side of Madoff's Mega-Swindle (The Inadvertent Hand of Justice) While it is understandable that the super-rich and wealthy, who have lost a large portion of their retirement and investment funds are unanimous in their condemnation and cries of betrayal of trust, and the editorials of all the prestigious newspapers and weeklies have joined the chorus of moral critics, there is much to praise in Madoff's deeds, even if such praise was not at the heart of his fraudulent endeavor. It is worthwhile to list the inadvertent positive outcomes of Madoff's mega-swindle. First of all the swindle of $50 plus billion dollars may make a big dent on US Zionist funding of illegal Israeli colonial settlements in the Occupied Territories, lessen funding for AIPAC's purchase of Congressional influence and financing of propaganda campaigns in favor of a pre-emptive US military attack against Iran. Most investors will have to lower or eliminate their purchase of Israel bonds, which subsidize the Jewish State's military budget. Secondly, the swindle has further discredited the highly speculative hedge funds already reeling from massive withdrawals because of deep losses. Madoff's funds were one of the last 'respected' operations still drawing new investors, but with the latest revelations it may accelerate their demise. The dismissed promoters may finally have to perform an honest, productive day's work. Thirdly, Madoff's long-term, large-scale fraud was not detected by the Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) despite its claims of at least two investigations. As a result, there is a total loss of credibility. More generally, the SEC's failure demonstrates the incapacity of capitalist government regulatory agencies to detect mega frauds. This failure raises the question of whether alternatives to investing in Wall Street are better suited to protect savings and pension funds. Fourthly, Madoff's long-term association with NASDAQ, including his chairmanship, while he was defrauding his clients of billions, strongly suggests that the members and leaders of this stock exchange are incapable of recognizing a crook, and are prone to overlook felonious behavior of 'one of their own'. In other words, the investing public can no longer look to holders of high posts in NASDAQ as a sign of probity. After Madoff it may signal time to look for a king-size mattress for safe keeping of what remains of a family's wealth. The fifth point is that the investment advisors from top banks in Europe, Asia and the US managing billions of funds did not carry out the most elementary due diligence of Madoff's operation. Apart from severe bank losses, tens of thousands of influential, affluent and super-rich lost their entire accumulated wealth. The result is total loss of confidence in the leading banks and financial instruments as well as the general discrediting of 'expert knowledge'. The result is a weakening of the financial stranglehold over investor behavior and the demise of an important sector of the parasitic 'rentier' class, which gains without producing any useful commodities or providing needed services. The sixth point is that since most of the money stolen by Madoff came from the upper classes around the world, his behavior has reduced inequalities - he is the 'greatest leveler' since the introduction of the progressive income tax. By ruining billionaires and bankrupting millionaires, Madoff has lessened their capacity to use their wealth to influence politicians in their favor - thus increasing the potential political influence of the less affluent sectors of class society?and inadvertently strengthening democracy against the financial oligarchs. A seventh point can be made that by swindling life-long friends, self-same ethno-religious investors, narrow ethnically defined country club members and close family members, Madoff demonstrates that finance capital shows no respect for any of the pieties of everyday life: Great and small, holy and profane, all are subordinated to the rule of capital. Eighth, among the many ruined investors in New York and New England, there are a number of mega slumlords (real estate moguls), sweatshop owners (fancy name-brand clothes and toy manufacturers) and others who barely paid the minimum wage to their women and immigrant laborers, evicted poor tenants and swindled employees out of their pensions before moving their operations to China. In other words, Madoff's swindle was a kind of secular 'divine' retribution for past and present crimes against labor and the poor. Needless to say, this 'unconscious Robin Hood' did not redistribute the money fleeced from the employers to their workers, he reinvested part of it in charities which enhanced his philanthropic image and to payout to some of his early investors so sustain the overall Ponzi scam. Point number nine is that Madoff struck a severe blow against anti-Semites who claim that there is a 'close-knit Jewish conspiracy to defraud the Gentiles', laying that canard to rest once and for all. Among Bernard Madoff's principle victims were his closest Jewish friends and colleagues, people who shared Seder meals and frequented the same upscale temples in Long Island and Palm Beach. Bernie was discriminating in accepting clients, but it was on the basis of their wealth and not their national origin, race, religion or sexual preference. He was very ecumenical and a strong backer of globalization. There was nothing ethnocentric about Madoff: He defrauded the Anglo-Chinese bank HSBC of $1 billion dollars and several billions from the Dutch arm of the Belgian bank Fortes. $1.4 billion was from the Royal Bank of Scotland, the French bank BNP Paribas, the Spanish bank, Banco Santander, the Japanese Nomura; not to mention hedge funds in London and the US, which have admitted holdings in Bernard Madoff Investment Securities. Indeed Bernie was emblematic of the modern up-to-date, politically correct, multicultural, international?swindler. The ease with which the super rich of Europe forked their fortunes over caused one Madrid-based business consultant to observe that, "picking off Spain's wealthiest was like clubbing seals?" (Financial Times, December 18, 2008 p.16) The tenth point is that Madoff's swindle will likely promote greater self-criticism and a more distrustful attitude toward other potential confidence people posing as reliable financial know-it-alls. Among self-critical Jews, they are less likely to confide in brokers simply because they are zealous backers of Israel and generous contributors to Zionist fund drives. That is no longer an adequate guarantee of ethical behavior and a certificate of good conduct. In fact it may raise suspicion of brokers who are excessively ardent boosters of Israel and promise consistent high returns to local Zionist affiliates - asking themselves whether this business about 'what is good for the ?' is really a cover for another scam. The final and 11th point is the demise of Madoff's enterprise and his wealthy liberal Jewish victims will adversely affect contributions to the 52 Major Jewish American Organizations, numerous foundations in Boston, Los Angeles, New York and elsewhere, as well as the Clinton/Schumer militarist wing of the Democratic Party (Madoff bankrolled both of them as well as other unconditional Congressional supporters of Israel). This may open Congress to greater debate on Middle East policy without the usual high volume attacks. Conclusion Madoff's swindle and fraudulent behavior is not the result of a personal moral failure. It is the product of a systemic imperative and the economic culture, which informs the highest circles of our class structure. The paper economy, hedge funds and all the 'sophisticated financial instruments' are all 'Ponzi schemes' - they are not based on producing and selling goods and services. They are financial bets on future financial paper growth based on securing future buyers to pay off earlier cash ins. The 'failure' of the SEC is totally predictable and systemic: The regulators are selected from the regulatees, are beholden to them and defer to their judgments, claims and audit sheets. They are structured to 'miss the signs' and to avoid 'over-regulating' their financial superiors. Madoff operated in a milieu of a Wall Street where everything goes, where impunity for mega-bailouts for mega swindlers is the norm. As an individual swindler, he out-defrauded some of his bigger institutional competitors on the Street. The whole system of rewards and prestige goes to those best able to juggle the books, to cover the paper trails and who have willing victims begging to get fleeced. What a mensch, this Madoff! In a few days, one individual, Bernard Madoff, has struck a bigger blow against global financial capital, Wall Street and the US Zionist Lobby/Israel-First Agenda than the entire US and European left combined over the past half century! He has been more successful in reducing vast wealth disparities in New York than all the white, black, Christian and Jewish, reform and mainline Democratic and Republican governors and Mayors over the past two centuries. Some right-wing conspiracy theorists are claiming that Bernie is a secret Islamic-Palestinian agent (from Hamas) who set out to deliberately undermine the financial base of the Jewish State of Israel and its most powerful, affluent and generous US backers and foundations. Others claim that he is a closet Marxist whose swindles were carefully designed to discredit Wall Street and to funnel billions into clandestine radical organizations - after all? does anyone know where the lost billions have gone? Unlike the leftist pundits, bloggers and protest marchers, whose earnest and public activities have had no effect on the rich and powerful, Madoff has aimed his blows where it hurts the most: Their mega-bank accounts, their confidence in the capitalist system, their self-esteem and, yes, even their cardiac well-being. Does that mean we on the left should form a Bernie Madoff Defense Committee and call for a bailout in line with Paulson's bailout of his Citibank cronies? Should we proclaim "Equal bailout for equal swindlers!"? Should we advocate his flight (or his right of return) to Israel to avoid a trial? It might not fly with his many Jewish victims to make the case for an Israeli retirement for Bernie. There is no reason to mount the barricades for Bernard Madoff. It's enough to recognize that he has inadvertently rendered an historic service to popular justice by undermining some of the financial props of a class-ridden injustice system. Postscript Was it out of sheer admiration or because of some covert linkages with Madoff that our current Attorney General Michael Mukasey is removing himself from the investigation? Others of equal importance and influence are most certainly tied in the Madoff Affair, and not just the 'victims'. We are facing a serious case of matters of State ? No one can believe that a single person could by himself pull off a scam of this size and duration. Nor can any serious investigator believe that $50 billion dollars has simply 'disappeared' or been squirreled into personal accounts. December 2008 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ SpamWall: Mail to this addy is deleted unread unless it contains the keyword "igve". From creuss at bluewin.ch Sun Dec 28 05:51:09 2008 From: creuss at bluewin.ch (Christoph Reuss) Date: Sun Dec 28 05:53:33 2008 Subject: [Mai-not] Key questions Message-ID: Dear Yves, > I have been branded a predator by Chris Reuss Did I call you a predator or just someone who has adopted predators' ways of thinking (such as believing that a talking gorilla can tell humans how to save the world)? You see, predators have succeeded in making even producers think in the ways fed to them by predators. As long as even progressive people fall for predators' nonsense like hairshirts, Marxism or Sorosism, there is no hope for real change -- the predators will continue to wreck the planet and divide&conquer producers, in whatever disguise and pretext. So this is the challenge: Exposing predators and their schemes. Recognizing false flags/dichotomies as such. Best wishes for the new year, Chris ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ SpamWall: Mail to this addy is deleted unread unless it contains the keyword "igve". From siamdave at yahoo.ca Sun Dec 28 06:05:41 2008 From: siamdave at yahoo.ca (Dave Patterson) Date: Sun Dec 28 06:05:59 2008 Subject: [Mai-not] Key questions In-Reply-To: <199336.90655.qm@web59815.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> References: <199336.90655.qm@web59815.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200812281905410203.01DACA63@smtp-adsl.totonline.net> Yves, with dispassion, I hope, so please if I misspeak don't take it personally - but you seem to be doing exactly what you accuse the MAI-notters of, complaining about someone else without offering solutions (your questions at the end are not, as far as I can see, a 'solution' to anything, or a plan of action). And I do not agree that we are all just complaining without offering solutions anyway. First, you must consider means - as a small handful of older people (miniscule in terms of world population), with little in the way of financial resources, spread all over the world, what exactly do you think we should be doing? I think we have all indicated at various times that MAI-not is only the place we particular people meet together to share things we have found that might be of interest to the others (and if we occasionally have slightly heated discussions as we try to find a clearer understanding of what is happening in the world, exactly what is wrong with that? That's what thinking, talking people do ...) - but all of us are in contact with other people or groups in various ways, trying to do what we can to spread the message that our world is in dire straits and we need to have some serious changes. Again, what else would you have us do? We face a very powerful enemy, who has pretty well indoctrinated most of the populations of our various countries - until we find some way to break through that indoctrination, not much else is possible, I think, without, at least a lot of money, which none of us have. We do, I believe, what we can, in very limited circumstances, in the midst of a lemming herd apparently determined to run off the cliff. Manning the barricades somewhere might sound romantic, but it's not going to do much good against the current extremely powerful enemy, who has mesmerized or controls by fear most of our fellow citizens. Again, practical suggestions from you would be more useful than criticisms (the very thing you accuse us of, incorrectly I believe as I noted earlier). And your notion that "..You stay within the existing system, while blaming it as if you were outside of it..." - could you clarify that a bit? What are you suggesting any of us do to get 'outside' the 'system'? Are you aware of my book Green Island (http://www.rudemacedon.ca/greenisland.html ) describing an entire society in some detail outside the current system? How, for instance, are you not within the same system yourself, whilst blaming it for its failures as you accuse us of? Where exactly in the modern world can we locate ourselves so we are not within the system? Did you fly a system airplane to Ecuador, or walk? Do you pay system electicity and water bills, or produce your own? Do you suggest we hole up in the Australian outback or Canadian arctic, far from the eyes of man, and try to start a new society or something? And - "..And you always expect the powers-that-are in the system to take on the challenges you are launching, reform themselves, and transform the world for the common good..." - again, sorry if I misunderstand, but I don't see anyone here expecting the system to reform itself after we wake up the 'powers that be' - we (I think, myself certainly, I should not presume to speak for others) are fighting to wake up people who are oppressed by the power structure, to understand the oppression and get rid of the power structure, more or less. I certainly see no hope for the capitalist berserker to wake up some day like Scrooge and become reformed and start doing good things - to me, the capitalist power structure is a cancer on our planet, no more nor less, for which the only solution is excision. As for "...Why don't you try to propose something concrete, starting from where you are and basing your projects on means available to you, rather than fighting for a change in behaviour among people and groups who don't give a damn about Mai-Not?..." - I think I have covered that, for me anyway, with Green Island, and doing what I can with what I have, not having the means to take on a decades-long multi-billion dollar advertising campaign or anything as our enemy can to sway public opinion, nor the money to travel around the country or world organising meetings and giving speeches and passing out literature etc - I do what I can. As, I think, do you - although whatever it is you are doing, you are not taking much time to tell us here on MAI-not about it. (and the MAI-not mockery is hardly warranted nor really clear why you thought you had to say that at all - I speak to people who apparently feel as I do about our society, whether they know of MAI-not or not is not relevant to anything (although certainly a lot of them fought the MAI as we did ten years ago) I think I have covered answers to most of your questions at the end above, but to briefly address them directly: 1. Yes, I think I am quite well aware of what is going on in the world today, in terms of the broad picture, as expressed in my earlier work They're Building a Box - and You're In It - http://www.rudemacedon.ca/dlp/box/box-intro.html and my recent essay Banketeering http://www.rudemacedon.ca/banketeering.html . These are, of course, far from exhaustive, and do not in any way address particulars, for instance, of environmental destruction - but we are not going to be able to do anything about environmental destruction until we have control of the serious power structure on our planet, so it is my opinion, perhaps in opposition to yours, that understand the precise chemical reactions that are occurring in our oceans or atmosphere is not currently useful information, for me. The information is available - it is not necessary for me to obtain a degree in advanced chemistry to fight for a better world. But nothing changes until we have some democratic control of the decision making that is happening in our country and world, in my opinion, and that is what I fight for. 2. Obviously not, as indicated in The Box. 3. Again, covered in detail in The Box and to some extent Green Island. What we need is an informed democracy, and that is what I direct my efforts to birthing. 4. We need to wake people up to the current dangers, to the lack of democracy that allows these things to happen - which I try to do with The Box, and Green Island, Banketeering, and my ongoing contributions to progessive web site discussions, etc. Just to speak for myself, I continue to read and study, and then write and share what I have found with as many others as possible, through other websites and discussion boards - if I had the money, I would be back in Canada organising meetings and giving speeches and distributing information and being more active like that, but if I was back in Canada right now, I would be doing even less than I am, as I would have no decent job and no way to do anything at all - probably facing your classic short and brutish life as a homeless person in some city. If you have some magic solution for me, that would allow me to pass around this lack of money obstacle in a world dominated by money, I would be most interested in hearing it (with, of course, the understanding that I am close to 60 years old, and not really physically capable of working my way around the world on tramp steamers and part time jobs picking vegetables or whatever, much as I might enjoy that experience if I was 30 years younger and had the kind of understanding of the world I now have, and did not have when I was younger). Here in Thailand I am fortunate enough to have a marketable and in-demand skill, and work at a job that does not depress me to the extent I can do nothing useful in my non-working hours but try to recover enough to force myself back to work the next day (as so many in Canada and other 'civilized' countries appear to be doing) - but I have the time and good head-space after my short work week is finished to do the research and thinking and writing I do, to try to do my part to help us make a better world. And I hope you do have a successful new year too, Yves, and my thanks for enabling us on MAI-not to continue to share our small contributions and ideas to the fight for a better world - and thanks for provoking this small rant from me, a part of a year end assessment, as it were, of where I am in my life and work - not exactly where I would prefer to be, or my world, but still alive and kicking, and hopeful, and continuing the fight, and able to do so, and thankful enough for that. We are at a cusp right now, as I think you understand, and we have no idea of which little straw might sway the outcome - so everything is important, including this small list, and the small contributions of us who share some parts of our lives here. Best to all. Dave *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 08-12-27 at 9:03 AM Yves Bajard wrote: Dear Mai-notters I wish you all a solidly felt inside joy for these last days of 2008 and the first days of 2009. I wish also that you arm yourself with courage and determination to face constructively our very uncertain and threatening immediate future. End-of-year comments Christmas 2008 is gone and the last days of this year can now be counted on one hand. Whatever bad and ominous happened during the past 360 days, in or near your backyard or further away, is nothing compared to what threatens for the next 365 days and further. Mai-not is now some ten years old. Let me clarify a few points and express my (I believe) dispassionate and clinical opinion of Mai-not and its operation (no blame against anyone among you being implied) 1. First, let me explain briefly where I come from and why I have chosen to take over and support you with as few personal inputs as possible. Although I have been branded a predator by Chris Reuss, I have no relation with any bank or financial group. I am not linked either with Henry Ford et al., the Rockefellers, the Carnegies or any emir or cheikh of the Middle East. And I have worked all my adult life against a salary or for no salary at all. I am a retired civil engineer and geologist, specialised in the management of useful/necessary information on natural and human factors that affect risks and opportunities in watersheds/areas under stress. My idea was from start to introduce cooperative ways to reduce risks in such watersheds. Of course that went at cross purposes with current ways of doing in which information is seen as a weapon useful for its holders to control the others for immediate gain in power and riches. Since 1989, I have been an outcast, still fighting for my ideas. I created the NetCFS in 1991, with the backing of a solid group of persons apparently concerned with the dangers to our common future resulting from current ways of doing things. For years, I have been its main source of finance, drawing on my small retirement income and getting outside stipends without any ties attached from time to time. My wife's salary as a high school teacher allowed us to raise our children an to keep on existing. I tried many avenues to wake up people not just to the increasing warnings of a very threatening future for the whole system, and I still keep on. My undertaking with Mai-not was one of these attempts. 2. my opinion of Mai -not I have been monitoring closely the various posts on Mai-Not, and found that in general, you, Mai-notters, denounce what goes wrong in this world. You exchange views about issues you see as important but which you rarely place in a full context. You sometimes drift into interpersonal diatribes. And finally, you blame the greedy or the imperialists, the "predators" and other demoniac groups, while praising the "producers" a vaguely group of pure human beings in which you deem you belong. Until now, I have not seen expressions of constructive ideas or proposals for action by Mai-notters. You stay within the existing system, while blaming it as if you were outside of it. And you always expect the powers-that-are in the system to take on the challenges you are launching, reform themselves, and transform the world for the common good. Why don't you try to propose something concrete, starting from where you are and basing your projects on means available to you, rather than fighting for a change in behaviour among people and groups who don't give a damn about Mai-Not? 3. I would propose that you give some clinical and critical thought to the group and examine also critically (in the logical sense of critical mind) my perception of Mai-not. I would also wish that at least a few among you engage in a search for constructive options that might pull us out of current destructive trajectory. I think that for our courage to be solid and to have a chance to open for all of us a path out of the current mess, we need to address a few fundamental questions -and share our answers, our perceptions and our doubts. On this 27th day of December, I propose four such questions and suggest that we do that together, as a start, on Mai-not, with as few personal attacks or implications as possible. My questions are: a. Do you think that you are adequately informed about the whats, the hows the how-comes, the whys, the wheres and the whens of what is happening that affects your ways of life and that of so many others who are sinking into an undescribable angst when not a serious deprivation of the essentials of life? b. Do you think that the institutions that are at the helm the whole economic, cultural and social system in our backyard and at a world scale are capable of effectively steering us out of the mess they -and us - created and thrived upon? c. If yes, in what ways and on what impulse? If no what would you propose as a viable alternative? d. What then, would you propose we should and can do to reach adequate results or to trigger awider public move toward an effective managwement of current risks and threats? I hope that now at this time of the day, you will bite the bullet and take on the challenge. Again, best wishes of the season Yves Bajard, PS: I am sending this from Ecuador, where I am learning some Spanish, bits of Hispano-American literature, and looking at the whole problematique from a different perspective. PPS: Please also consider that a small contribution from you to the operation of Mai-not would be welcome. Cheques, money orders or other means should be written to the order thew NetCFS of and sent to NetCFS (attention Dee Shoolingin, Treasurer) , 1896 Watson St, Victoria, BC Canada, V8R 6N6. Where legislation make such a contribution impossible, just stay put and hope that those of you without such restrictions will contribute sufficiently, sop that I don't have to personally foot the bills (internet, etc..) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.globalproblematique.net/pipermail/mai-not/attachments/20081228/fd690444/attachment-0001.html From yves.bajard at yahoo.com Sun Dec 28 08:51:37 2008 From: yves.bajard at yahoo.com (Yves Bajard) Date: Sun Dec 28 08:51:45 2008 Subject: [Mai-not] Key questions Message-ID: <863780.84453.qm@web59808.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Reply to Chris' messageof today on the subject I started yesterday: Dear Chris: I don't want to dig into the archives of the group, but my memory is clear: you branded me a Predator an I received this as a hard blow below the belt.. I spent more than forty years in rebellion, trying to establish locally and at a wider level, ways of doing things that would have been reasonably directed toward the common good? without interfering destructively with the ecological context, but that were straight against the ways of doing things of the socio-economic and cultural system. As what I was undertaking more or less corresponded to the official discourse, it took some time (and costs for me and my family) to end up as an outcast. Period. My key question, though, was not to decide whether I am or not a predator or zombie of predators. In fact, I never believed that "a talking gorilla can tell humans how to save the world". The parabol was interestoing and probably had a wider and deeper effect than Mai-Not and most similar undertakings including mine. I think that your purpose of "exposing predators and their schemes" and "recognizing false flags/dichotomies as such" is fine, but insufficient. The number of people who take that message and react constructively is very? very small. Other action is urgently needed, because " predators have succeeded" in "wrecking the planet" to a point where not much time is left before the whole thing collapses, crumbing on the heads of everybody (including the real predators and the divided & conquerred producers). So, my impression is that we need 1 first to approach the "divided & conquered producers" most likely to start doubting their current position and function 2. infiltrate their minds, starting from where they are, trying to wake them up as rapidly as possible, by means of a subtle infiltration of their ways of thinking and obeying uncritically messages imprinted in them by centuries of predator-forged intoxication. 3. simultaneously, we must try and do this slowly enough to avoid precipitating the collapse by waking up fierce and abrupt reaction from these "divided & conquered producers", their colleagues and their masters. Their power is such that we would not last more than a few moments before being anihilated or co-opted. So, what do you think? Are you ready to admit that I am not a predator'zombie? Best wishes as well for 2009. We'll need to stand up talk strategically and define a way out of the mess that might work without compounding the current process of predatory destruction. Yves ) , in whatever disguise and pretextmaking even producers think in the ways fed to them by predators.? As long as even progressive people fall for predators' nonsense like hairshirts, Marxism or Sorosism, there is no hope for real change -- the predators will continue to . Best wishes for the new year, Chris ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ SpamWall: Mail to this addy is deleted unread unless it contains the keyword "igve". _______________________________________________ Mai-not mailing list Mai-not@globalproblematique.net http://www.globalproblematique.net/mailman/listinfo/mai-not -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.globalproblematique.net/pipermail/mai-not/attachments/20081228/7b444a38/attachment.html From yves.bajard at yahoo.com Sun Dec 28 10:58:35 2008 From: yves.bajard at yahoo.com (Yves Bajard) Date: Sun Dec 28 10:58:41 2008 Subject: [Mai-not] Key questions Message-ID: <891524.51317.qm@web59814.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Reply to Dave Patterson' reaction to my challenge of yesterday. I'll try to be short. Dear Dave: 1. I see nothing personal in your message and have always respected you and your posts on Mai-Not, while not always accepting your points. 2.? I don't think that I am "doing exactly what (I) accuse the MAI-notters" of doing. And I was not "complaining" of anything, just stating the general impression I get from monitoring Mai-not 3.? I have no solution or plan of action? to offer and don't think that anyone living can do it, because the whole problematique is too wide, too complex and at the same time too darn near the limit beyond which a destructive collapse starts and cannot be slowed down. My questions at the end ot the initial challenge are not and were not intended as a solution to anything, or a?plan of action. Just a starting point in a dialogue. 4. My point is that one of the few paths out of the mess might be to direct our thinking and doing toward (a) as full as possible a perception and understanding of the problematique, and of its causes (b) a careful identification of the weak points in the system, from where infiltration can start effectively without adding to the risks, (c) simultaneously an identification of? the obstacles to such an infiltration, and (d) the definition of a possible catalytic infiltration into the system with the aim of triggering a self-driven fundamental change of course in the system itself (e) the undertaking by iurselves of the initial steps in this strategy. 5 . I did not accuse anyone of "complaining without offering solutions". I just stated the impression Mainot produces on me... (a) I am fully aware that the Mai-notters are "a small handful of older people (miniscule in terms of world population), with little in the way of financial resources, spread all over the world". (b) I am also aware that "MAI-not is only the place we particular people meet together to share things we have found that might be of interest to the others" (c) I have on occasions raised my "voice" when I saw "slightly heated discussions" only to regret rapidly my interfering.. (d) I only think that it would be excellent if you shared with one another your "contact(s) with other people or groups in various ways, trying to do what (you) can.." (e) But I think that it is by far insufficient now " to spread the message that our world is in dire straits and we need to have some serious changes". We need to conceive those serious changes and launch them, not counting on anyone else than us and if possible other similar "small handfuls of (older or younger) people" with "little in the way of financial resources, spread all over the world". Thesesmall groups can be the catalyst of change. 6. I agree that we "face a very powerful enemy, who has pretty well indoctrinated most of the populations of our various countries" and? that "until we find some way to break through that indoctrination, not much else is possible". But I think that with the Internet, our respective backgrounds, knowledge, culture and connections, we can start something effective without "a lot of money". 7. If we put our heads and our sensitivities together, we probably ca do much more than what each of us separately sees as what he or she can, even with the "very limited circumstances, in the midst of a lemming herd apparently determined to run off the cliff". 8. I agree fully that "manning the barricades somewhere"... is "not going to do it is countereffective and already coopted by the system as a way to divert energies opposing them. I sassume that the system is effectively financing many of this "activism" while building it as a scarecrow for the lemmings. 9.? My four questions of yesterday are, I think, practical enough to allow us to adjust our violins to a similar tune. And a preliminary step to some brainstorming? towards concepts and ideas that might develop ways out of the mess we are sinking in. And again my statements re: Mai-not were not a"criticism" than a statement of impressions, dispassionate. I think that the Mai-notters together have a much larger potential than what appears from curren posts 10. Nobody is or can be outside the system, but it is possible to have an independent "outside look" at it. In any manner, we need to work at it from the inside while looking at it from the outside. A little like a surgeon operating on himself 11. I would insist on the fact that in my message of yesterday, I was not "criticizing" nor "blaming" anyone. Situations are what they are and they are always perceived somehow subjectively by observers. (Yet, it is possible to reduce subjectiveness). 12. What I am suggesting we do to look at the system from the outside is proposed above in points 4 and 9. 13. I was? aware of your book Green Island (http://www.rudemacedon.ca/greenisland.html? ) but have not yet read it. I will do that forthwith. 14. I will not reply in detail to the somewhat heated sentences wher you ask me whether or not I live "within the system". Of course I do and so does everybody now, including you, most probably. But as mentioned above, I can try to look at the system clinically, as much from the outside as possible. And I am tring to do that. And so are you probably...I few a system airplane to Ecuador, I pay system electicity and water bills. I never suggestedwe hole up in the Australian outback or Canadian arctic.. As stated above I think we need to transform the system from the inside while keeping on looking at it from the outside. Dave, I feel that you did not understand my point or let yourself carried away... 15. You "don't see anyone here expecting the system to reform itself after we wake up the 'powers that be'. I don't either. I propose infiltration as rapidly as possible, among members of the zombified public and weak predators' zombies, yet without breaking more china in the shop than is already broken. a frontal attack such as what you apparently propose, will not work: To wake up oppressed people and mobilize them to get rid of the power structure and excise capitalism is easier said than done.? I never proposed that the capitalist berserker would wake up some day like Scrooge and become reformed and start doing good things. I hope that by infiltrating gradually and waking up carefully the zombies in a self-expanding mode, the berserker will end up isolated and powerless, with no choice but to bow. By the way, who would do the excision? 16. Again, I'll read Green Island and comment on it via Mai-not. Meanwhile, I'll stop responding point by point to your pas, as you are beginning to be a little defensive. I was not attacking anyway. Best wishes to you and to all Mai-notters Yves -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.globalproblematique.net/pipermail/mai-not/attachments/20081228/c20eda82/attachment.html From siamdave at yahoo.ca Sun Dec 28 11:44:04 2008 From: siamdave at yahoo.ca (Dave Patterson) Date: Sun Dec 28 11:44:29 2008 Subject: [Mai-not] Key questions In-Reply-To: <891524.51317.qm@web59814.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> References: <891524.51317.qm@web59814.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200812290044040203.031096FB@smtp-adsl.totonline.net> HI Yves, won't reply at length, I think we're both more or less on the same boat, but this could lead to some useful ideas if pursued a bit (not just you and I, I hope...) - be careful with promises to read Green Island - it's a biggie. If you're comfortable reading PDFs, I can email it to you - two volumes of ~500 pgs - Hope you're enjoying Ecuador - hope to get to S America some day myself dave *** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 08-12-28 at 8:58 AM Yves Bajard wrote: Reply to Dave Patterson' reaction to my challenge of yesterday. I'll try to be short. Dear Dave: 1. I see nothing personal in your message and have always respected you and your posts on Mai-Not, while not always accepting your points. 2. I don't think that I am "doing exactly what (I) accuse the MAI-notters" of doing. And I was not "complaining" of anything, just stating the general impression I get from monitoring Mai-not 3. I have no solution or plan of action to offer and don't think that anyone living can do it, because the whole problematique is too wide, too complex and at the same time too darn near the limit beyond which a destructive collapse starts and cannot be slowed down. My questions at the end ot the initial challenge are not and were not intended as a solution to anything, or a plan of action. Just a starting point in a dialogue. 4. My point is that one of the few paths out of the mess might be to direct our thinking and doing toward (a) as full as possible a perception and understanding of the problematique, and of its causes (b) a careful identification of the weak points in the system, from where infiltration can start effectively without adding to the risks, (c) simultaneously an identification of the obstacles to such an infiltration, and (d) the definition of a possible catalytic infiltration into the system with the aim of triggering a self-driven fundamental change of course in the system itself (e) the undertaking by iurselves of the initial steps in this strategy. 5 . I did not accuse anyone of "complaining without offering solutions". I just stated the impression Mainot produces on me... (a) I am fully aware that the Mai-notters are "a small handful of older people (miniscule in terms of world population), with little in the way of financial resources, spread all over the world". (b) I am also aware that "MAI-not is only the place we particular people meet together to share things we have found that might be of interest to the others" (c) I have on occasions raised my "voice" when I saw "slightly heated discussions" only to regret rapidly my interfering.. (d) I only think that it would be excellent if you shared with one another your "contact(s) with other people or groups in various ways, trying to do what (you) can.." (e) But I think that it is by far insufficient now " to spread the message that our world is in dire straits and we need to have some serious changes". We need to conceive those serious changes and launch them, not counting on anyone else than us and if possible other similar "small handfuls of (older or younger) people" with "little in the way of financial resources, spread all over the world". Thesesmall groups can be the catalyst of change. 6. I agree that we "face a very powerful enemy, who has pretty well indoctrinated most of the populations of our various countries" and that "until we find some way to break through that indoctrination, not much else is possible". But I think that with the Internet, our respective backgrounds, knowledge, culture and connections, we can start something effective without "a lot of money". 7. If we put our heads and our sensitivities together, we probably ca do much more than what each of us separately sees as what he or she can, even with the "very limited circumstances, in the midst of a lemming herd apparently determined to run off the cliff". 8. I agree fully that "manning the barricades somewhere"... is "not going to do it is countereffective and already coopted by the system as a way to divert energies opposing them. I sassume that the system is effectively financing many of this "activism" while building it as a scarecrow for the lemmings. 9. My four questions of yesterday are, I think, practical enough to allow us to adjust our violins to a similar tune. And a preliminary step to some brainstorming towards concepts and ideas that might develop ways out of the mess we are sinking in. And again my statements re: Mai-not were not a"criticism" than a statement of impressions, dispassionate. I think that the Mai-notters together have a much larger potential than what appears from curren posts 10. Nobody is or can be outside the system, but it is possible to have an independent "outside look" at it. In any manner, we need to work at it from the inside while looking at it from the outside. A little like a surgeon operating on himself 11. I would insist on the fact that in my message of yesterday, I was not "criticizing" nor "blaming" anyone. Situations are what they are and they are always perceived somehow subjectively by observers. (Yet, it is possible to reduce subjectiveness). 12. What I am suggesting we do to look at the system from the outside is proposed above in points 4 and 9. 13. I was aware of your book Green Island (http://www.rudemacedon.ca/greenisland.html ) but have not yet read it. I will do that forthwith. 14. I will not reply in detail to the somewhat heated sentences wher you ask me whether or not I live "within the system". Of course I do and so does everybody now, including you, most probably. But as mentioned above, I can try to look at the system clinically, as much from the outside as possible. And I am tring to do that. And so are you probably...I few a system airplane to Ecuador, I pay system electicity and water bills. I never suggestedwe hole up in the Australian outback or Canadian arctic.. As stated above I think we need to transform the system from the inside while keeping on looking at it from the outside. Dave, I feel that you did not understand my point or let yourself carried away... 15. You "don't see anyone here expecting the system to reform itself after we wake up the 'powers that be'. I don't either. I propose infiltration as rapidly as possible, among members of the zombified public and weak predators' zombies, yet without breaking more china in the shop than is already broken. a frontal attack such as what you apparently propose, will not work: To wake up oppressed people and mobilize them to get rid of the power structure and excise capitalism is easier said than done. I never proposed that the capitalist berserker would wake up some day like Scrooge and become reformed and start doing good things. I hope that by infiltrating gradually and waking up carefully the zombies in a self-expanding mode, the berserker will end up isolated and powerless, with no choice but to bow. By the way, who would do the excision? 16. Again, I'll read Green Island and comment on it via Mai-not. Meanwhile, I'll stop responding point by point to your pas, as you are beginning to be a little defensive. I was not attacking anyway. Best wishes to you and to all Mai-notters Yves -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.globalproblematique.net/pipermail/mai-not/attachments/20081229/bd658498/attachment.html From yves.bajard at yahoo.com Sun Dec 28 12:57:57 2008 From: yves.bajard at yahoo.com (Yves Bajard) Date: Sun Dec 28 12:58:07 2008 Subject: [Mai-not] Key questions In-Reply-To: <200812290044040203.031096FB@smtp-adsl.totonline.net> Message-ID: <159774.76917.qm@web59805.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Good shoiw, Dave. Let's hope that others will? join the conversation. I have read what is available on the Web og Green Island. I already have a few questions, but would rather wait until I have seen your 500 .pdf pages. Otherwise, my four questions still stand and could be, I think, a good starting point to create a more solid common base of understanding and communication among us. This is, in my opinion, a very necessary first step to create stronger spirit of cooperation among us than the camaraderie that already exists. All the best Yves --- On Sun, 12/28/08, Dave Patterson wrote: From: Dave Patterson Subject: Re: [Mai-not] Key questions To: mai-not@globalproblematique.net Date: Sunday, December 28, 2008, 9:44 AM HI Yves, won't reply at length, I think we're both more or less on the same boat, but this could?lead to?some useful?ideas if pursued a bit?(not just you and I, I hope...) - be careful with promises to read Green Island - it's a biggie. If you're comfortable reading PDFs, I can email it to you? - two volumes of ~500 pgs -? Hope you're enjoying Ecuador - hope to get to S America some day myself dave *** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 08-12-28 at 8:58 AM Yves Bajard wrote: Reply to Dave Patterson' reaction to my challenge of yesterday. I'll try to be short. Dear Dave: 1. I see nothing personal in your message and have always respected you and your posts on Mai-Not, while not always accepting your points. 2.? I don't think that I am "doing exactly what (I) accuse the MAI-notters" of doing. And I was not "complaining" of anything, just stating the general impression I get from monitoring Mai-not 3.? I have no solution or plan of action? to offer and don't think that anyone living can do it, because the whole problematique is too wide, too complex and at the same time too darn near the limit beyond which a destructive collapse starts and cannot be slowed down. My questions at the end ot the initial challenge are not and were not intended as a solution to anything, or a?plan of action. Just a starting point in a dialogue. 4. My point is that one of the few paths out of the mess might be to direct our thinking and doing toward (a) as full as possible a perception and understanding of the problematique, and of its causes (b) a careful identification of the weak points in the system, from where infiltration can start effectively without adding to the risks, (c) simultaneously an identification of? the obstacles to such an infiltration, and (d) the definition of a possible catalytic infiltration into the system with the aim of triggering a self-driven fundamental change of course in the system itself (e) the undertaking by iurselves of the initial steps in this strategy. 5 . I did not accuse anyone of "complaining without offering solutions". I just stated the impression Mainot produces on me... (a) I am fully aware that the Mai-notters are "a small handful of older people (miniscule in terms of world population), with little in the way of financial resources, spread all over the world". (b) I am also aware that "MAI-not is only the place we particular people meet together to share things we have found that might be of interest to the others" (c) I have on occasions raised my "voice" when I saw "slightly heated discussions" only to regret rapidly my interfering.. (d) I only think that it would be excellent if you shared with one another your "contact(s) with other people or groups in various ways, trying to do what (you) can.." (e) But I think that it is by far insufficient now " to spread the message that our world is in dire straits and we need to have some serious changes". We need to conceive those serious changes and launch them, not counting on anyone else than us and if possible other similar "small handfuls of (older or younger) people" with "little in the way of financial resources, spread all over the world". Thesesmall groups can be the catalyst of change. 6. I agree that we "face a very powerful enemy, who has pretty well indoctrinated most of the populations of our various countries" and? that "until we find some way to break through that indoctrination, not much else is possible". But I think that with the Internet, our respective backgrounds, knowledge, culture and connections, we can start something effective without "a lot of money". 7. If we put our heads and our sensitivities together, we probably ca do much more than what each of us separately sees as what he or she can, even with the "very limited circumstances, in the midst of a lemming herd apparently determined to run off the cliff". 8. I agree fully that "manning the barricades somewhere"... is "not going to do it is countereffective and already coopted by the system as a way to divert energies opposing them. I sassume that the system is effectively financing many of this "activism" while building it as a scarecrow for the lemmings. 9.? My four questions of yesterday are, I think, practical enough to allow us to adjust our violins to a similar tune. And a preliminary step to some brainstorming? towards concepts and ideas that might develop ways out of the mess we are sinking in. And again my statements re: Mai-not were not a"criticism" than a statement of impressions, dispassionate. I think that the Mai-notters together have a much larger potential than what appears from curren posts 10. Nobody is or can be outside the system, but it is possible to have an independent "outside look" at it. In any manner, we need to work at it from the inside while looking at it from the outside. A little like a surgeon operating on himself 11. I would insist on the fact that in my message of yesterday, I was not "criticizing" nor "blaming" anyone. Situations are what they are and they are always perceived somehow subjectively by observers. (Yet, it is possible to reduce subjectiveness). 12. What I am suggesting we do to look at the system from the outside is proposed above in points 4 and 9. 13. I was? aware of your book Green Island (http://www.rudemacedon.ca/greenisland.html? ) but have not yet read it. I will do that forthwith. 14. I will not reply in detail to the somewhat heated sentences wher you ask me whether or not I live "within the system". Of course I do and so does everybody now, including you, most probably. But as mentioned above, I can try to look at the system clinically, as much from the outside as possible. And I am tring to do that. And so are you probably...I few a system airplane to Ecuador, I pay system electicity and water bills.. I never suggestedwe hole up in the Australian outback or Canadian arctic.. As stated above I think we need to transform the system from the inside while keeping on looking at it from the outside. Dave, I feel that you did not understand my point or let yourself carried away... 15. You "don't see anyone here expecting the system to reform itself after we wake up the 'powers that be'. I don't either.. I propose infiltration as rapidly as possible, among members of the zombified public and weak predators' zombies, yet without breaking more china in the shop than is already broken. a frontal attack such as what you apparently propose, will not work: To wake up oppressed people and mobilize them to get rid of the power structure and excise capitalism is easier said than done.? I never proposed that the capitalist berserker would wake up some day like Scrooge and become reformed and start doing good things. I hope that by infiltrating gradually and waking up carefully the zombies in a self-expanding mode, the berserker will end up isolated and powerless, with no choice but to bow. By the way, who would do the excision? 16. Again, I'll read Green Island and comment on it via Mai-not. Meanwhile, I'll stop responding point by point to your pas, as you are beginning to be a little defensive. I was not attacking anyway. Best wishes to you and to all Mai-notters Yves _______________________________________________ Mai-not mailing list Mai-not@globalproblematique.net http://www.globalproblematique.net/mailman/listinfo/mai-not -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.globalproblematique.net/pipermail/mai-not/attachments/20081228/050d1722/attachment.html From McPogo at aol.com Sun Dec 28 13:18:12 2008 From: McPogo at aol.com (McPogo@aol.com) Date: Sun Dec 28 13:18:24 2008 Subject: [Mai-not] More on the Slaughter of Baby Seals! Message-ID: Ottawa's Better Solution to the Yearly Baby Seal Slaughter! _http://news.aol.ca/article/ottawa-posts-new-seal-hunt-rules-in-face-of-eu-ban /467894/_ (http://news.aol.ca/article/ottawa-posts-new-seal-hunt-rules-in-face-of-eu-ban/467894/) To EU, Please BAN the import of seal skins of all kinds immediately. This hunt stinks of the same slaughter of 1200+ whales by the Japanese fishing industry for "scientific study" (bullcrap!) every year! The navies of the developed world should give these Japanese poachers and other ships slaughtering the world's wildlife the same opportunity that the Somali pirates will get. STAY HOME OR GET SUNK!!! To Sealers Changing the method you use to kill the seals is an improvement? You are still slaughtering wildlife on a massive scale for a world that no longer needs or wants your product! To Mr. Harper, Ottawa's going to shell out $billions to the auto sector! They may as well round up a piddling $13 million to get Canadians out of this barbaric, disgusting absolutely vile business! Come on, use some of our excess EI (Employment Insurance Fund) $billions to bail them out and pay them off/retrain them! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.globalproblematique.net/pipermail/mai-not/attachments/20081228/e7b602a9/attachment.html From jfos at vic.australis.com.au Sun Dec 28 18:43:44 2008 From: jfos at vic.australis.com.au (john foster) Date: Sun Dec 28 18:56:44 2008 Subject: [Mai-not] Fwd: 'We Interrupt Your Regularly Scheduled Programming ... ' Message-ID: <029001c96950$4f5f36f0$21ad57ca@jfos> THE END OF AMERICA: Letter of Warning to a Young Patriot Naomi Wolf In a stunning indictment of the Bush administration and Congress, best-selling author Naomi Wolf lays out her case for saving American democracy. In authoritative research and documentation Wolf explains how events of the last six years parallel steps taken in the early years of the 20th century's worst dictatorships such as Germany, Russia, China, and Chile. The book cuts across political parties and ideologies and speaks directly to those among us who are concerned about the ever-tightening noose being placed around our liberties. In this timely call to arms, Naomi Wolf compels us to face the way our free America is under assault. She warns us-with the straight-to-fellow-citizens urgency of one of Thomas Paine's revolutionary pamphlets-that we have little time to lose if our children are to live in real freedom. "Recent history has profound lessons for us in the U.S. today about how fascist, totalitarian, and other repressive leaders seize and maintain power, especially in what were once democracies. The secret is that these leaders all tend to take very similar, parallel steps. The Founders of this nation were so deeply familiar with tyranny and the habits and practices of tyrants that they set up our checks and balances precisely out of fear of what is unfolding today. We are seeing these same kinds of tactics now closing down freedoms in America, turning our nation into something that in the near future could be quite other than the open society in which we grew up and learned to love liberty," states Wolf. Wolf is taking her message directly to the American people in the most accessible form and as part of a large national campaign to reach out to ordinary Americans about the dangers we face today. This includes a lecture and speaking tour, and being part of the nascent American Freedom Campaign, a grassroots efforts to ensure that presidential candidates pledge to uphold the constitution and protect our liberties from further erosion. The End of America will shock, enrage, and motivate-spurring us to act, as the Founders would have counted on us to do in a time such as this, as rebels and patriots-to save our liberty and defend our nation. http://www.bravenewbookstore.com/product_info.php?products_id=799 ------------------------------------------------------ Provided by Australis http://www.australis.com.au/ From jfos at vic.australis.com.au Sun Dec 28 18:49:33 2008 From: jfos at vic.australis.com.au (john foster) Date: Sun Dec 28 18:57:00 2008 Subject: [Mai-not] Fwd: 'As America Collapses ... " Message-ID: <029b01c96950$57962e50$21ad57ca@jfos> Extract of an article from a U$ Patriot website that contains lots of interesting looking links to a host of books, articles and videos on (oppressive/corrupt) governmnent, fascism, International banksters, water, GMOs, Fluoride, Nuclear War and Waste and many other topics of public importance. "Except for a few hundred thousand U.S. Patriots, most Americans have no clue what has really been going on within The United States over the past 100 years, and the sad thing is that most do not want to know the truth. The further you look into the rabbit hole, the deeper it gets. (snip) The Federal Reserve is not federal but a private bank who does not have Americans best interests at heart. We no longer have any manufacturing really based out of America and there is no way that our economy can survive this incredible strain very much longer. The IRS strong arms every American yearly with income taxes, yet there are no laws saying an income tax is to be paid. The CIA is involved in everything from global drug trafficking and covert military missions, to assassinations around the world and including U.S. Soil. Look at JFK for instance. It did not take long after JFK announced that he was going disband the CIA that he was shot in Texas. America's new Stasi - The Department Of Homeland Security - is and has been slowly eradicating our rights for a few years now.(snip) In late 2006, Congress revised the Posse Comitatus Act and the Insurrection Act to make it far easier for a president to declare martial law. Those changes were repealed at the end of this January as part of Public Law 110-181 (HR 4986), the National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2008 (signed into law by President Bush on January 28, 2008). Unfortunately it is not the great victory in which one might think because of the total militarization of all local and State police forces all across America.(snip) Former British Foreign Secretary: "Al Qaeda is Not a Real Group, Just a U.S. Propaganda Campaign" All part of a comprehensive website at http://dprogram.net/ Dprogram.net 'Countering Propaganda' ------------------------------------------------------ Provided by Australis http://www.australis.com.au/ From diongiles1 at aapt.net.au Mon Dec 29 06:12:46 2008 From: diongiles1 at aapt.net.au (Dion Giles) Date: Mon Dec 29 06:12:59 2008 Subject: [Mai-not] Credit crunch? Just a lie and a shakedown Message-ID: <20081229121249.01006F3C5@fep08.mfe.bur.connect.com.au> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.globalproblematique.net/pipermail/mai-not/attachments/20081229/b8edb3fe/attachment.html From creuss at bluewin.ch Mon Dec 29 06:18:22 2008 From: creuss at bluewin.ch (Christoph Reuss) Date: Mon Dec 29 06:20:45 2008 Subject: [Mai-not] Key questions Message-ID: Dear Yves, > my memory is clear: you branded me a Predator an I received this as a > hard blow below the belt.. If this was your impression, I apologize. > In fact, I never believed that "a talking gorilla can tell humans how to > save the world". The parabol was interestoing and probably had a wider and > deeper effect than Mai-Not and most similar undertakings including mine. What was its effect? To me, Quinn's parable showed once more that predators have a longing to go back to the past, be it stone age or feudalism (EU). > I think that your purpose of "exposing predators and their schemes" and > "recognizing false flags/dichotomies as such" is fine, but insufficient. Of course it is just the first step, the next being to disempower predators. > The number of people who take that message and react constructively is > very very small. Yes, unfortunately most people are so brainwashed that they identify with predators, or at best react by saying that they are so bound up in the system that resisting would be (economic) suicide. Producers are enslaved so they can only choose between going along or becoming an "outcast", as we Mai-Notters seem to be... > Other action is urgently needed, because " predators have succeeded" in > "wrecking the planet" to a point where not much time is left before the > whole thing collapses, crumbing on the heads of everybody (including the > real predators and the divided & conquerred producers). I don't think the real (big) predators will be victims of environmental collapse. On the contrary, they gain from it (e.g. the Arctic oil fields that become viable as the ice caps melt), and they are the only ones who have the resources to protect themselves from enviro disasters, living on the cleanest, safest spots and having the best nutrition/supplements (while being the biggest polluters themselves!). Actually, enviro collapse/disasters are part of their plan to kill off most of today's world population, to get back to "Ishmael's" world... I'm not making this up. You can read such sick plans in "enviro" circles from Quinn's fans. I agree with the rest of your posting. Cheers, Chris ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ SpamWall: Mail to this addy is deleted unread unless it contains the keyword "igve". From siamdave at yahoo.ca Mon Dec 29 09:27:49 2008 From: siamdave at yahoo.ca (Dave Patterson) Date: Mon Dec 29 09:29:59 2008 Subject: [Mai-not] Key questions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200812292227490253.03148A74@smtp-adsl.totonline.net> I always kind of liked most parables, and I was somewhat taken by the talking gorilla, and am not ashamed to admit it - parables aren't meant to be final answers, they're just lights shining on doors you might want to have a look through .... "...What was its effect? To me, Quinn's parable showed once more that predators have a longing to go back to the past, be it stone age or feudalism..." - I completely disagree - predators, the human variety at any rate, which is all we talk about here because using the word 'predator' for what humans get up to is in no way the same as what non-human predators do, are out to max their takings from the flock, to max their comfort zone, to max their control, to max everything really - and that never involves going backwards - it's the Arcadians, to which most of us have some connection however dimly understood, who dream of going back to some more perfect time (don't mistake my meaning, I am not amongst this crowd seriously, as I prefer computer word processors to writing on cave walls, but some things in the past were better, for instance there is no doubt that we had more trust in general in the population 30-40 years ago than we do now, and that was better - it's the correct balance of progress and civilization that we need to work towards ...) *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 08-12-29 at 1:18 PM creuss@bluewin.ch wrote: >Dear Yves, > >> my memory is clear: you branded me a Predator an I received this as a >> hard blow below the belt.. > >If this was your impression, I apologize. > > >> In fact, I never believed that "a talking gorilla can tell humans how to >> save the world". The parabol was interestoing and probably had a wider >and >> deeper effect than Mai-Not and most similar undertakings including mine. > >What was its effect? To me, Quinn's parable showed once more that >predators >have a longing to go back to the past, be it stone age or feudalism (EU). > > >> I think that your purpose of "exposing predators and their schemes" and >> "recognizing false flags/dichotomies as such" is fine, but insufficient. > >Of course it is just the first step, the next being to disempower >predators. > > >> The number of people who take that message and react constructively is >> very very small. > >Yes, unfortunately most people are so brainwashed that they identify with >predators, or at best react by saying that they are so bound up in the >system that resisting would be (economic) suicide. Producers are enslaved >so they can only choose between going along or becoming an "outcast", as >we Mai-Notters seem to be... > > >> Other action is urgently needed, because " predators have succeeded" in >> "wrecking the planet" to a point where not much time is left before the >> whole thing collapses, crumbing on the heads of everybody (including the >> real predators and the divided & conquerred producers). > >I don't think the real (big) predators will be victims of environmental >collapse. On the contrary, they gain from it (e.g. the Arctic oil fields >that become viable as the ice caps melt), and they are the only ones who >have the resources to protect themselves from enviro disasters, living >on the cleanest, safest spots and having the best nutrition/supplements >(while being the biggest polluters themselves!). >Actually, enviro collapse/disasters are part of their plan to kill off >most of today's world population, to get back to "Ishmael's" world... >I'm not making this up. You can read such sick plans in "enviro" circles >from Quinn's fans. > >I agree with the rest of your posting. > >Cheers, >Chris > > > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >SpamWall: Mail to this addy is deleted unread unless it contains the >keyword >"igve". > > >_______________________________________________ >Mai-not mailing list >Mai-not@globalproblematique.net >http://www.globalproblematique.net/mailman/listinfo/mai-not > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.1/1867 - Release Date: 28/12/2551 14:23 From thinker at thelakebc.ca Mon Dec 29 11:27:04 2008 From: thinker at thelakebc.ca (Ed Deak) Date: Mon Dec 29 11:23:30 2008 Subject: [Mai-not] Key questions In-Reply-To: <200812292227490253.03148A74@smtp-adsl.totonline.net> References: <200812292227490253.03148A74@smtp-adsl.totonline.net> Message-ID: <200812291723.mBTHNA3D028157@karma.reboot.ca> To defeat an army you must take away their weapons. To stop predators you either kill them, or protect your flock so they can't get to it. Talking about them is not going to do anything to prevent the damage. Not being an intellectual, I prefer practical ways that work, instead of the blowing of hot air. When I'll go out to feed the chicken this morning, I'm certain to find the patter of tiny feet in the fresh snow in the front of the chicken house. The tracks of mink, of some similar predator, but they can't get in to kill the chicken, because I built the house so that no predator, either on wings, or feet can get in. In the past people were building forts, but today's predators can easily be disarmed with logic, that takes away their weapons. Now comes the repeat of something I've been writing about on this list, but has been ignored for over 10 years,. The world has always been controlled and dominated by the conspiracy of 3 predator sectors : The Merchants, who develop the predatorial demands, now represented by the banks and middlemen who control the economy with the perceived power of imaginary money created from the air. The Priesthoods, who develop the scriptural justifications for the crimes of the predators, now represented by the economists. The Military, who enforce the demands, hoping for the scriptural absolution of their crimes. I discovered in 1985 that neoclassical economics were a fraud, based mainly on the fraudulent definition of economic efficiency, the GDP , Growth and Productivity figures. Developed the correct definition of economic efficiency and copyrighted it in 1991 to establish the date. In short, I have broken the back of the neoclassical market economy theory on a single page, featured on many economic forums, including several by the World Bank, used in PhD dissertations and remains unbroken and unbreakable for almost 20 years. But when I write that it is an exercise in futility to talk about the damage and blame the politicians, without going after the universities where the scriptural justification of the damages originate, I'm dismissed with silence, or heaped with abuse, as I was on Yves' NCFS forum, until I quit. The point is that I don't really give a hoot who believes what, we're well set up and OK, but find it very amusing that people are spending incredible amounts of time and verbiage on this very simple problem, by not daring to go after the priesthood that develops the holy words to absolve the crimes. That simple. Now I have to go and feed the chicken, Cheers, Ed. At 07:27 AM 29/12/2008, you wrote: >I always kind of liked most parables, and I was somewhat taken by >the talking gorilla, and am not ashamed to admit it - parables >aren't meant to be final answers, they're just lights shining on >doors you might want to have a look through .... > >"...What was its effect? To me, Quinn's parable showed once more >that predators have a longing to go back to the past, be it stone >age or feudalism..." > >- I completely disagree - predators, the human variety at any rate, >which is all we talk about here because using the word 'predator' >for what humans get up to is in no way the same as what non-human >predators do, are out to max their takings from the flock, to max >their comfort zone, to max their control, to max everything really - >and that never involves going backwards - it's the Arcadians, to >which most of us have some connection however dimly understood, who >dream of going back to some more perfect time (don't mistake my >meaning, I am not amongst this crowd seriously, as I prefer computer >word processors to writing on cave walls, but some things in the >past were better, for instance there is no doubt that we had more >trust in general in the population 30-40 years ago than we do now, >and that was better - it's the correct balance of progress and >civilization that we need to work towards ...) > >*********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** > >On 08-12-29 at 1:18 PM creuss@bluewin.ch wrote: > > >Dear Yves, > > > >> my memory is clear: you branded me a Predator an I received this as a > >> hard blow below the belt.. > > > >If this was your impression, I apologize. > > > > > >> In fact, I never believed that "a talking gorilla can tell humans how to > >> save the world". The parabol was interestoing and probably had a wider > >and > >> deeper effect than Mai-Not and most similar undertakings including mine. > > > >What was its effect? To me, Quinn's parable showed once more that > >predators > >have a longing to go back to the past, be it stone age or feudalism (EU). > > > > > >> I think that your purpose of "exposing predators and their schemes" and > >> "recognizing false flags/dichotomies as such" is fine, but insufficient. > > > >Of course it is just the first step, the next being to disempower > >predators. > > > > > >> The number of people who take that message and react constructively is > >> very very small. > > > >Yes, unfortunately most people are so brainwashed that they identify with > >predators, or at best react by saying that they are so bound up in the > >system that resisting would be (economic) suicide. Producers are enslaved > >so they can only choose between going along or becoming an "outcast", as > >we Mai-Notters seem to be... > > > > > >> Other action is urgently needed, because " predators have succeeded" in > >> "wrecking the planet" to a point where not much time is left before the > >> whole thing collapses, crumbing on the heads of everybody (including the > >> real predators and the divided & conquerred producers). > > > >I don't think the real (big) predators will be victims of environmental > >collapse. On the contrary, they gain from it (e.g. the Arctic oil fields > >that become viable as the ice caps melt), and they are the only ones who > >have the resources to protect themselves from enviro disasters, living > >on the cleanest, safest spots and having the best nutrition/supplements > >(while being the biggest polluters themselves!). > >Actually, enviro collapse/disasters are part of their plan to kill off > >most of today's world population, to get back to "Ishmael's" world... > >I'm not making this up. You can read such sick plans in "enviro" circles > >from Quinn's fans. > > > >I agree with the rest of your posting. > > > >Cheers, > >Chris > > > > > > > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > >SpamWall: Mail to this addy is deleted unread unless it contains the > >keyword > >"igve". > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >Mai-not mailing list > >Mai-not@globalproblematique.net > >http://www.globalproblematique.net/mailman/listinfo/mai-not > > > >No virus found in this incoming message. > >Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > >Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.1/1867 - Release Date: > 28/12/2551 14:23 > > > > >_______________________________________________ >Mai-not mailing list >Mai-not@globalproblematique.net >http://www.globalproblematique.net/mailman/listinfo/mai-not > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.1/1867 - Release Date: >12/28/2008 2:23 PM From creuss at bluewin.ch Mon Dec 29 11:54:28 2008 From: creuss at bluewin.ch (Christoph Reuss) Date: Mon Dec 29 11:56:54 2008 Subject: [Mai-not] Key questions Message-ID: Dave Patterson wrote: > I always kind of liked most parables, and I was somewhat taken by the > talking gorilla, and am not ashamed to admit it - parables aren't meant > to be final answers, they're just lights shining on doors you might want > to have a look through .... But when a parable is used by a predator to manipulate readers... And there's a whole "fan community" of Quinn that takes the "parable" seriously! You have to understand how strongly such "fiction" is shaping the ways people think -- that's also the trick of Hollywood... > using the word 'predator' for what humans get up to is in no way the > same as what non-human predators do, are out to max their takings from > the flock, to max their comfort zone, to max their control, to max > everything really I agree that the word "predator" is inaccurate in this sense (btw, this is why there is no suitable word for human predators in German). Do you have a more accurate word? > - I completely disagree - predators .... max everything really - and that > never involves going backwards Look at what today's leading predators (neo-cons) are doing: They're rolling back social achievements of centuries. They're fading away nation-states and democratic controls. They're privatizing everything and abolishing the middle-class. I.e. they take society back to the middle ages. This is so drastic that EU fans even literally praised the middle ages! Of course predators use modern technology where it suits them -- to perfect the surveillance and their weaponry to crush resistance. But that's not the kind of technological progress that Producers want -- on the contrary, it eats away money that should be used for progress! --- Ed Deak wrote: > In the past people were building forts, but today's > predators can easily be disarmed with logic, that takes away their weapons. The problem is that powerful predators follow the slogan "might is right", so they laugh at logic. They have the means to manipulate the audience so much that logic becomes irrelevant -- think of the obvious WTC demolition that "nobody" recognizes as such. Where the predators realize that logic could become dangerous to their lies, they (mis)use their power to silence those who spread the logic. One way is the "anti-Semite" smear. Another way is to abolish free speech in practice -- in private and state media anyway, and even on the Internet (in Europe), by legal action (threatening to sue anyone who publishes statements they don't like). Lawyers are the bloodhounds of power. > But when I write that it is an exercise in futility to talk about the > damage and blame the politicians, without going after the > universities where the scriptural justification of the damages > originate, I'm dismissed with silence, or heaped with abuse, as I was > on Yves' NCFS forum, until I quit. Yves, can you explain that...? Cheers, Chris ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ SpamWall: Mail to this addy is deleted unread unless it contains the keyword "igve". From siamdave at yahoo.ca Mon Dec 29 12:19:19 2008 From: siamdave at yahoo.ca (Dave Patterson) Date: Mon Dec 29 12:19:40 2008 Subject: [Mai-not] Key questions In-Reply-To: <200812291723.mBTHNA3D028157@karma.reboot.ca> References: <200812292227490253.03148A74@smtp-adsl.totonline.net> <200812291723.mBTHNA3D028157@karma.reboot.ca> Message-ID: <200812300119190737.03B18FA8@smtp-adsl.totonline.net> I don't really think anyone here disagrees with you Ed (I stand to be corrected, as always), but the question is - when the 'priesthood', your unholy triumvirate being the base of the priesthood, totally dominates (well, 90%+) the 'flock' as it were, it's actually the flock we need to be getting the Word out to - but they are very very disinclined to listen to anyone not sanctified by the priesthood of the universities and mainstream media. How do we few reach out to the flock with 'our' truth (without being burned at the stake as heretics?) I think going after the university people is more or less useless, as I expect most of them know very well what they do - serve power - and are not going to be turned to the light by mere words - if 'we' had the power, they would follow us as easily as they do the capitalists currently - but how do we get the power in the first place? So to address your first question - the weapon of the current predators is their flock - how do we convince the flock that they are following the wrong master? (actually I don't really like the way that came out, because I don't want to be anyone's master with a flock following, I just want the flock to find Democracy - but then that starts to sound religious too .... I guess it's time I went and fed my own something ...) *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 08-12-29 at 9:27 AM Ed Deak wrote: >To defeat an army you must take away their weapons. To stop >predators you either kill them, or protect your flock so they can't get to >it. > >Talking about them is not going to do anything to prevent the damage. >Not being an intellectual, I prefer practical ways that work, instead >of the blowing of hot air. When I'll go out to feed the chicken this >morning, I'm certain to find the patter of tiny feet in the fresh >snow in the front of the chicken house. The tracks of mink, of some >similar predator, but they can't get in to kill the chicken, because >I built the house so that no predator, either on wings, or feet can >get in. In the past people were building forts, but today's >predators can easily be disarmed with logic, that takes away their weapons. > >Now comes the repeat of something I've been writing about on this >list, but has been ignored for over 10 years,. > >The world has always been controlled and dominated by the conspiracy >of 3 predator sectors : > >The Merchants, who develop the predatorial demands, now represented >by the banks and middlemen who control the economy with the perceived >power of imaginary money created from the air. > >The Priesthoods, who develop the scriptural justifications for the >crimes of the predators, now represented by the economists. > >The Military, who enforce the demands, hoping for the scriptural >absolution of their crimes. > >I discovered in 1985 that neoclassical economics were a fraud, based >mainly on the fraudulent definition of economic efficiency, the GDP , >Growth and Productivity figures. > >Developed the correct definition of economic efficiency and >copyrighted it in 1991 to establish the date. > >In short, I have broken the back of the neoclassical market economy >theory on a single page, featured on many economic forums, including >several by the World Bank, used in PhD dissertations and remains >unbroken and unbreakable for almost 20 years. > >But when I write that it is an exercise in futility to talk about the >damage and blame the politicians, without going after the >universities where the scriptural justification of the damages >originate, I'm dismissed with silence, or heaped with abuse, as I was >on Yves' NCFS forum, until I quit. > >The point is that I don't really give a hoot who believes what, we're >well set up and OK, but find it very amusing that people are spending >incredible amounts of time and verbiage on this very simple problem, >by not daring to go after the priesthood that develops the holy words >to absolve the crimes. > >That simple. > >Now I have to go and feed the chicken, Cheers, Ed. > > > > > > > > > > > >At 07:27 AM 29/12/2008, you wrote: >>I always kind of liked most parables, and I was somewhat taken by >>the talking gorilla, and am not ashamed to admit it - parables >>aren't meant to be final answers, they're just lights shining on >>doors you might want to have a look through .... >> >>"...What was its effect? To me, Quinn's parable showed once more >>that predators have a longing to go back to the past, be it stone >>age or feudalism..." >> >>- I completely disagree - predators, the human variety at any rate, >>which is all we talk about here because using the word 'predator' >>for what humans get up to is in no way the same as what non-human >>predators do, are out to max their takings from the flock, to max >>their comfort zone, to max their control, to max everything really - >>and that never involves going backwards - it's the Arcadians, to >>which most of us have some connection however dimly understood, who >>dream of going back to some more perfect time (don't mistake my >>meaning, I am not amongst this crowd seriously, as I prefer computer >>word processors to writing on cave walls, but some things in the >>past were better, for instance there is no doubt that we had more >>trust in general in the population 30-40 years ago than we do now, >>and that was better - it's the correct balance of progress and >>civilization that we need to work towards ...) >> >>*********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** >> >>On 08-12-29 at 1:18 PM creuss@bluewin.ch wrote: >> >> >Dear Yves, >> > >> >> my memory is clear: you branded me a Predator an I received this as a >> >> hard blow below the belt.. >> > >> >If this was your impression, I apologize. >> > >> > >> >> In fact, I never believed that "a talking gorilla can tell humans how >to >> >> save the world". The parabol was interestoing and probably had a wider >> >and >> >> deeper effect than Mai-Not and most similar undertakings including >mine. >> > >> >What was its effect? To me, Quinn's parable showed once more that >> >predators >> >have a longing to go back to the past, be it stone age or feudalism >(EU). >> > >> > >> >> I think that your purpose of "exposing predators and their schemes" >and >> >> "recognizing false flags/dichotomies as such" is fine, but >insufficient. >> > >> >Of course it is just the first step, the next being to disempower >> >predators. >> > >> > >> >> The number of people who take that message and react constructively is >> >> very very small. >> > >> >Yes, unfortunately most people are so brainwashed that they identify >with >> >predators, or at best react by saying that they are so bound up in the >> >system that resisting would be (economic) suicide. Producers are >enslaved >> >so they can only choose between going along or becoming an "outcast", as >> >we Mai-Notters seem to be... >> > >> > >> >> Other action is urgently needed, because " predators have succeeded" >in >> >> "wrecking the planet" to a point where not much time is left before >the >> >> whole thing collapses, crumbing on the heads of everybody (including >the >> >> real predators and the divided & conquerred producers). >> > >> >I don't think the real (big) predators will be victims of environmental >> >collapse. On the contrary, they gain from it (e.g. the Arctic oil >fields >> >that become viable as the ice caps melt), and they are the only ones who >> >have the resources to protect themselves from enviro disasters, living >> >on the cleanest, safest spots and having the best nutrition/supplements >> >(while being the biggest polluters themselves!). >> >Actually, enviro collapse/disasters are part of their plan to kill off >> >most of today's world population, to get back to "Ishmael's" world... >> >I'm not making this up. You can read such sick plans in "enviro" >circles >> >from Quinn's fans. >> > >> >I agree with the rest of your posting. >> > >> >Cheers, >> >Chris >> > >> > >> > >> >>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> >SpamWall: Mail to this addy is deleted unread unless it contains the >> >keyword >> >"igve". >> > >> > >> >_______________________________________________ >> >Mai-not mailing list >> >Mai-not@globalproblematique.net >> >http://www.globalproblematique.net/mailman/listinfo/mai-not >> > >> >No virus found in this incoming message. >> >Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >> >Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.1/1867 - Release Date: >> 28/12/2551 14:23 >> >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Mai-not mailing list >>Mai-not@globalproblematique.net >>http://www.globalproblematique.net/mailman/listinfo/mai-not >> >>No virus found in this incoming message. >>Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >>Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.1/1867 - Release Date: >>12/28/2008 2:23 PM > >_______________________________________________ >Mai-not mailing list >Mai-not@globalproblematique.net >http://www.globalproblematique.net/mailman/listinfo/mai-not > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.1/1867 - Release Date: 28/12/2551 14:23 From ax490 at ncf.carleton.ca Mon Dec 29 15:56:10 2008 From: ax490 at ncf.carleton.ca (Mike Dirienzo) Date: Mon Dec 29 15:56:19 2008 Subject: [Mai-not] Key questions Message-ID: <4959477A.5090203@ncf.carleton.ca> Thanks Yves, for managing this forum. I hardly ever post, but I appreciate the postings of those who have the time to research and write. In a few years, I expect to free myself from day-after-day corporate salary slavery to make better use of my remaining life. At that point, perhaps I can contribute regularly like the folks I admire here. The predators are trying to redefine retirement as continuing to work (until they no longer need you). I want to redefine retirement as switching from working for the corporation to working for a better world. Your point that we must move from criticism to concrete proposals is well-taken. But, it is not such a small step. Answers to your questions: a) If someone is inadequately informed about what is happening and why, they might not realize it. I try to be better informed by seeking out alternate sources of information, and by taking a "read between the lines" approach to mainstream media. Healthy scepticism is needed whenever you cannot directly verify information. Too often, people get hot and righteous about situations in foreign places, using their own prejudices to decide which reports are credible. I prefer not to become a "useful idiot" for either side. The current economic crisis is about far more than a few bad mortgages, or even deregulation of the predators. Capitalism is profitable only in expansion, but the physical enviroment is finite and stressed. The mainstream media overdoes the doom and gloom while ignoring the real question. What kind of lives can we have that are satisfying but not exploitive? b) Current institutions might be able to temporarily "solve" the current crisis, as they did in the Great Depression and in the increasingly frequent recessions since then. We can expect government to increase or extend unemployment insurance, for example, until most people find some sort of employment. If the real solution is a different type of economy, our current institutions will probably get in the way. c) This question requires bigger thinking than I have ever done. Much more local democracy and locally-oriented economy for basic goods is probably the antidote for the race to the bottom that "globalization" has produced. d) Like you, I would like to hear some proposals, preferably ones that have been tried elsewhere with some success. From siamdave at yahoo.ca Tue Dec 30 01:25:40 2008 From: siamdave at yahoo.ca (Dave Patterson) Date: Tue Dec 30 01:25:56 2008 Subject: predators unbound ... (Re: [Mai-not] Key questions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200812301425400718.011B125E@smtp-adsl.totonline.net> I think before I would want to say much else about Quinn I would need to know exactly why you seem to dislike him so much - it's been awhile since I read the books, but it seems to me his basic point was that there are two kinds of people, whom he identified as 'givers' and 'takers', which would correspond to our producer-predator idea - they're both just metaphors anyway, so imperfect by definition. But you can hardly blame an author for what readers take from a work - Adam Smith, for instance, seems to have done some good explaining of things, but has been turned into a neocon god, quite incorrectly, in my estimation (I think he would shudder to have George Bush calling him 'bud' or whatever), by people accusing him of saying things he never said, and extrapolating his ideas into places I don't think he ever intended - Marx too, for that matter, from what I have read of him - they both had some good insights, and they were both incomplete, as anyone must be, the world is too big and complex for anyone to explain all of relevance in a book of a few hundred pages (although Marx gave it a good go), there will always be mistakes and blind spots, and things will develop after the works are finished that shine new light on the subject, etc, and thus require changes in thinking - we just push on and try to find a bit more understanding as we do. But as for Quinn, and people doing things you dislike in his name, well, people are responsible for their actions, by and large, and if certain people want to take a book like Quinn's and read things into he never intended, that is not his responsibility, it seems to me, unless he clearly intended such things, which I don't think Quinn did. (I suspect Jesus would be somewhat unhappy to see what so many have done in his name... (and I'm not a religious sort at all)) You said "..To me, Quinn's parable showed once more that predators have a longing to go back to the past, be it stone age or feudalism (EU)..." - I don't quite see how you can say you don't believe a talking gorilla has anything to say, but then say that the gorilla gave you an insight into what the predators are thinking - but whatever it is, I don't agree, not sure whether with you or the gorilla or maybe Quinn (sorry, being facetious, as I said earlier, I don't think Quinn was really suggesting this at all, so I would be disagreeing with you). But maybe both things are sort of correct, depending on perspective - the predators might want to take the condition of the people they rule back to feudal times, but I don't think they themselves have any desire to go back to living in cold castles heated imperfectly by wood fires etc - again, I have talked of a 'new feudalism' often enough myself, but I don't mean it in literal terms, any more than when I say 'predator' I mean they are out hunting us down on the street to kill and eat blood (and by the by, I don't have any better term for 'predator', as we use it here it is quite suitable, I think) - it's all metaphor. The new feudalism is happening all around us, with the modern serfs going to their walmart jobs every day, their office towers and call-centers and fast food joints, keeping the wheels of modern commerce spinning so the rulers can continue raking in the considerable surplus value that buys them their private jets to take them to their private tropical paradises, where more serfs wait on them hand and foot etc. The 'progress', for the new feudal masters, is the indoctrination that has been going on for the last 100 years, so the new serfs believe they are free, and living in a democracy etc, so they are not even aware they have chains to be gotten rid of, and the again indoctrination that when the new rulers remove the social programs our parents fought for, the new serfs think there is no alternative, it is all ordained by some impartial financial god or something, so never fight back. So well indoctrinated they are mostly perfect examples of Churchill's saying (I think) "People run into the truth sometimes, but quickly get up and brush themselves off and scurry away as if nothing had happened.." Every year we get Christmas and New Year's messages from our esteemed leaders - imagine if the people could all have a go at this - http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8649250863235826256&hl=en . (Derrick Jensen, Endgame ) *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 08-12-29 at 6:54 PM creuss@bluewin.ch wrote: >Dave Patterson wrote: >> I always kind of liked most parables, and I was somewhat taken by the >> talking gorilla, and am not ashamed to admit it - parables aren't meant >> to be final answers, they're just lights shining on doors you might want >> to have a look through .... > >But when a parable is used by a predator to manipulate readers... >And there's a whole "fan community" of Quinn that takes the "parable" >seriously! You have to understand how strongly such "fiction" is shaping >the ways people think -- that's also the trick of Hollywood... > > >> using the word 'predator' for what humans get up to is in no way the >> same as what non-human predators do, are out to max their takings from >> the flock, to max their comfort zone, to max their control, to max >> everything really > >I agree that the word "predator" is inaccurate in this sense (btw, this >is why there is no suitable word for human predators in German). >Do you have a more accurate word? > > >> - I completely disagree - predators .... max everything really - and that >> never involves going backwards > >Look at what today's leading predators (neo-cons) are doing: >They're rolling back social achievements of centuries. >They're fading away nation-states and democratic controls. >They're privatizing everything and abolishing the middle-class. >I.e. they take society back to the middle ages. This is so drastic that >EU fans even literally praised the middle ages! >Of course predators use modern technology where it suits them -- to >perfect the surveillance and their weaponry to crush resistance. >But that's not the kind of technological progress that Producers want -- >on the contrary, it eats away money that should be used for progress! > >--- > >Ed Deak wrote: >> In the past people were building forts, but today's >> predators can easily be disarmed with logic, that takes away their >weapons. > >The problem is that powerful predators follow the slogan "might is right", >so they laugh at logic. They have the means to manipulate the audience >so much that logic becomes irrelevant -- think of the obvious WTC >demolition >that "nobody" recognizes as such. Where the predators realize that logic >could become dangerous to their lies, they (mis)use their power to silence >those who spread the logic. One way is the "anti-Semite" smear. Another >way is to abolish free speech in practice -- in private and state media >anyway, and even on the Internet (in Europe), by legal action (threatening >to sue anyone who publishes statements they don't like). Lawyers are the >bloodhounds of power. > > >> But when I write that it is an exercise in futility to talk about the >> damage and blame the politicians, without going after the >> universities where the scriptural justification of the damages >> originate, I'm dismissed with silence, or heaped with abuse, as I was >> on Yves' NCFS forum, until I quit. > >Yves, can you explain that...? > >Cheers, >Chris > > > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >SpamWall: Mail to this addy is deleted unread unless it contains the >keyword >"igve". > > >_______________________________________________ >Mai-not mailing list >Mai-not@globalproblematique.net >http://www.globalproblematique.net/mailman/listinfo/mai-not > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.1/1867 - Release Date: 28/12/2551 14:23 From diongiles1 at aapt.net.au Tue Dec 30 05:01:55 2008 From: diongiles1 at aapt.net.au (Dion Giles) Date: Tue Dec 30 05:02:05 2008 Subject: predators unbound ... (Re: [Mai-not] Key questions In-Reply-To: <200812301425400718.011B125E@smtp-adsl.totonline.net> References: <200812301425400718.011B125E@smtp-adsl.totonline.net> Message-ID: <20081230110156.A9D84F637@fep01.mfe.bur.connect.com.au> Confirmed my aversion to video clips and preference for the written word. First a long buffering pause, then a minute or two of play, then a second or two of play and a second or two of freezing, alternating until I got sick of it and gave up. Dion Giles Western Australia From siamdave at yahoo.ca Tue Dec 30 05:44:38 2008 From: siamdave at yahoo.ca (Dave Patterson) Date: Tue Dec 30 05:44:55 2008 Subject: vid workaround (Re: predators unbound ... (Re: [Mai-not] Key questions In-Reply-To: <20081230110156.A9D84F637@fep01.mfe.bur.connect.com.au> References: <200812301425400718.011B125E@smtp-adsl.totonline.net> <20081230110156.A9D84F637@fep01.mfe.bur.connect.com.au> Message-ID: <200812301844380703.0208299F@smtp-adsl.totonline.net> What I find often (not always) works for me is just turning off the sound and getting on with other stuff until the whole thing has played, and then replaying it - usually (not always, stupid inconsistent computers!!!) it is somehow stored in memory and plays through no problems. *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 08-12-30 at 8:01 PM Dion Giles wrote: >Confirmed my aversion to video clips and preference for the written >word. First a long buffering pause, then a minute or two of play, >then a second or two of play and a second or two of freezing, >alternating until I got sick of it and gave up. > >Dion Giles >Western Australia > > > >_______________________________________________ >Mai-not mailing list >Mai-not@globalproblematique.net >http://www.globalproblematique.net/mailman/listinfo/mai-not > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.1/1868 - Release Date: 29/12/2551 10:48 From oscarptyltd at ozemail.com.au Wed Dec 31 01:14:56 2008 From: oscarptyltd at ozemail.com.au (Clem Clarke) Date: Wed Dec 31 01:15:05 2008 Subject: [Mai-not] Common Good Finance: creating common good banks(tm) - Overview Message-ID: <495B1BF0.1060307@ozemail.com.au> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.globalproblematique.net/pipermail/mai-not/attachments/20081231/4dd252f5/attachment.html From duanebehrens at cox.net Wed Dec 31 07:50:51 2008 From: duanebehrens at cox.net (Duane Behrens) Date: Wed Dec 31 07:50:58 2008 Subject: [Mai-not] U.S. Media Silent on Gaza Attacks Message-ID: <20081231085051.4U55T.339346.imail@fed1rmwml35> . . . even as newspapers inside Israel severely criticize their own government. The following excerpts from Israeli newspapers offer a glimpse into this newest war that is far more informative than anything we're allowed to read from the MSM here in the U.S. Why? ---------------------------------------------------------- http://www.opednews.com/articles/Attack-on-Gaza-As-Usual--by-Greg-Mitchell-081230-602.html Attack on Gaza: As Usual, U.S. Media (And Most Liberals) Silent -- As Israeli Newspaper Raises Doubts by Greg Mitchell www.opednews.com In the usual process, the U.S. government, media here -- and many of the leading liberal bloggers -- are silent or playing down questions about whether Israel overreacted in its massive air strikes on Gaza, while the foreign press, and even Haaretz in Israel, carries more balanced accounts. Anyone who cares should consult the respected Haaretz site often, if for no other reason than to learn that criticism of Israeli military actions are usually more heated inside that country than in the USA. The New York Times, for example, as of today (Monday), has not yet editorialized on the air assault. You may recall the lockstep support in the U.S. for Israeli's invasion of southern Lebanon, which included the use of U.S.-made cluster bombs. That invasion turned out to be a genuine fiasco. One Sunday analysis at Haaretz: "A million and a half human beings, most of them downcast and desperate refugees, live in the conditions of a giant jail, fertile ground for another round of bloodletting. The fact that Hamas may have gone too far with its rockets is not the justification of the Israeli policy for the past few decades, for which it justly merits an Iraqi shoe to the face." Another opinion piece in Haaretz -- titled, "Neighborhood Bully Strikes Again" -- by Gideon Levy: "Israel embarked yesterday on yet another unnecessary, ill-fated war. On July 16, 2006, four days after the start of the Second Lebanon War, I wrote: 'Every neighborhood has one, a loud-mouthed bully who shouldn't be provoked into anger... Not that the bully's not right - someone did harm him. But the reaction, what a reaction!' Two and a half years later, these words repeat themselves, to our horror, with chilling precision. Within the span of a few hours on a Saturday afternoon, the IDF sowed death and destruction on a scale that the Qassam rockets never approached in all their years, and Operation 'Cast Lead' is only in its infancy." Also from Haaretz, Zvi Barel writes: "Six months ago Israel asked and received a cease-fire from Hamas. It unilaterally violated it when it blew up a tunnel, while still asking Egypt to get the Islamic group to hold its fire." Yet the U.S. media refers that only Hamas violated the ceasefire. Another columnist there, Yossi Sarid, writes: "I can only hope that this time, for a change, we will know when to stop. This war must be described from the get-go as a war 'to be on the safe side,' rather than of necessity, and it is still unclear whether the last missile fired will be fired by us or by them." Amira Hass, the paper's correspondent in Gaza, reports: "There are many corpses and wounded, every moment another casualty is added to the list of the dead, and there is no more room in the morgue. Relatives search among the bodies and the wounded in order to bring the dead quickly to burial. A mother whose three school-age children were killed, and are piled one on top of the other in the morgue, screams and then cries, screams again and then is silent." >From the lead Haaretz editorial: "[T]he inherent desire for retribution does not necessarily have to blind us to the view from the day after....Israel's violation of the lull in November expedited the deterioration that gave birth to the war of yesterday. But even if this continues for many days and even weeks, it will end in an agreement, or at least an understanding similar to that reached last June." UPDATE: A McClatchy dispatch quotes Daniel Levy, a political analyst in Israel who once served as an adviser to Ehud Barak, who is leading the military campaign against Hamas: "I don't see how this ends well, even if, in two weeks time, it looks like it ends well." Haaretz has just posted this from another columnist, Tom Segev: "[T]he assault on Gaza does not first and foremost demand moral condemnation - it demands a few historical reminders. Both the justification given for it and the chosen targets are a replay of the same basic assumptions that have proven wrong time after time. Yet Israel still pulls them out of its hat again and again, in one war after another." And this from another columnist, Akiva Eldar: "The tremendous population density in the Gaza Strip does not allow a "surgical operation" over an extended period that would minimize damage to civilian populations. The difficult images from the Strip will soon replace those of the damage inflicted by Qassam rockets in the western Negev. The scale of losses, which works in 'favor' of the Palestinians, will return Israel to the role of Goliath." The Monday editorial from the paper declares: "The current Israel Defense Forces operation in Gaza began with air strikes. In its first two days, there have been no reports of ground troops entering the Strip. But appetite is liable to overcome common sense and this tendency must be fought. Israel must adhere to the outline of Operation Cast Lead thus far, eschewing any major invasion that will end in occupation, a military administration and months (if not years) of fighting the local forces who will inevitably oppose the occupiers." The New York Times late Sunday reported, "At Shifa Hospital in Gaza City, women wailed as they searched for relatives among bodies that lay strewn on the hospital floor. One doctor said that given the dearth of facilities, not much could be done for the seriously wounded, and that it was 'better to be brought in dead.'" The Washington Post's update: "By late Sunday night, the toll had reached 290 dead and as many as 1,300 wounded, Moawia Hassanain, a senior Palestinian Health Ministry official, said in an interview. The fatalities included 22 children younger than 16; more than 235 children were wounded, he said."